As Long As Women Live With a 17th Century Mindset They'll Remain in the Same Old Rut

If there was a majority of women who didn't fit the above description wouldn't you have to say that we would see more women in power positions?

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! No doubt!

But I do think it is happening, little by little.

Well, I'll be the first to admit I may well be the wrong guy to be asking all that of! Been married, twice, divorced twice, my choice the first time, mutually the second, and I am not looking for the next EX-Mrs Augur! ROFL!

But, that said, I think a lot of those posers' resolutions can be considered a two-way street, looking thru a lot of different prisms if you will. I don't think "typical" at some point in the past, social mores or attitudes, are nearly as prevalent as they once were, not by a long shot. I don't think it's so much a "society wide" issue any more, not like sociologists could readily define past times and attitudes were, but almost down to an individual level these days.

I just see more and more women taking on leadership roles, in business, their own new start-ups, check out some the numbers of new business start-ups, they'll surprise you, in politics, in churches all over the place, just a lot more nowadays than I've seen in past years. And altho I'm older than a lot of trees out there, I'm not "that old" just yet! (*grin*!)

Maybe yer hangin' around the wrong group of ladies! (A joke! Just a joke! LOL!)

My youngest daughter, 28, told me last year that she was happy to know that if she never married it would be perfectly fine. My son, 33, said he didn't know if he would marry and have children. However, if he met a single mother he wouldn't mind helping her raise her child. My oldest daughter is sixteen years older than my youngest. She found the right mate and they have been married over 22 years. I think making wise choices because it is an individual choice, not pressure is the best approach.

Absolutely agreed JS. When society tries to pressure, it always applies it to the wrong points and it usually ends up hurting something fierce. :)

IMO, if you're not happy with yourself, you'll never be happy with someone else. To many, both sexes, are looking for someone else to make them happy or take care of them. I think that even manifests itself in our public / societal demands too.

Why did I? Because you are acting like women have no minds and cannot take care of themselves. Your words:

Women have yet to advance their mindset to the 21st Century and I’ll Tell You Why

In the 21^st Century women are still dependent upon men.

Just because YOU think women are mindless chattel, doesnt make it so. Why would you write an article like this? Do you enjoy bashing women?

Women still marry men they settle for and not their life mates.

Women are still buying into the hype that they must get married and have babies they can’t afford to take care of

Women are still buying into the till death do us part

Women get married before obtaining skills allowing them to support themselves without the added salary of a man

Women are still buying into a woman isn’t complete unless she has a man in her bed

So you write an article bashing women and throw in a CoH violation or two for good measure, yet I'M the one not mature enough for a discussion like this. Nice! The vast majority of women are not living in a 17th century mindset, no matter how you try to twist things to make it seem so. What I havent been able to figure out is who you hate more? Men or women?

My daughters, stepdaughters, granddaughter are not mate focused. However, being around some of their peers I've found that the Cinderella syndrome is alive and well. Celebrity serial dating and marriage is part of the problem. When a married woman separates from her husband and hooks up with someone else within days or weeks that is a red flag for me.

When I was married the first time and my husband wanted a divorce he told me he was afraid to live alone. I wasn't afraid to live alone and after his behavior I was looking forward to this. I asked him why he didn't want to live alone where he could learn more about himself and he said that was the problem, he didn't want to know. So perhaps this is one reason people hook up and never understand anything about themselves.

Your article focuses upon women, PowerIsKnowledge, but the problem is as much a male problem and a female problem. I think there is mention of men wanting their mommies in one or more posts so the combination of the male and female both looking for someone to take care of them is pretty equal.

Perhaps some get married to use each other as excuses, PowerIsKnowledge! When I would overhear my husband say, "I think my better half messed up" when he'd messed up or "I'd better check with my better half" when he knew that was bunk I'd raise a fuss with him and tell I was not his "excuse" for anyone or anything.

We don't blame our mess ups on each other. But when my spouse has trouble getting out of something without hurting someone's feelings, I say "Tell them I won't let you. Tell them I already made plans for us. Tell them you're not allowed. Whatever. Blame it on me. Then you can politely get out of it." It's a little white lie that keeps us from being suckered into AMWAY meetings and such. It works for us.

A mature individual wouldn't judge another couple's relationship based on one sentence.

I guess I COULD reply as an "adult" with the truth, which would go something like this "Hell no, I'm not coming to your stupid AMWAY party. I've got better things to do than sit around with a bunch of people I don't know listening to sales pitches about products I don't want so that you can make money off of me." Huh. Sometimes being "adult" just isn't kind. And I would rather be kind. It doesn't hurt anyone.

I'm not sure why anyone would find this so offensive, when it doesn't affect them in the slightest.

Oh my, DV, that would be my line, altered a bit but quite the same. Whenever someone asks me to play Bunko, attend a Tupperware, candle, jewelry, exotic or other party I'll tell them no way, that's not my gig. I even balk at wedding and baby showers and got irritated when a relative threw a baby shower for my last child. I told her I was on my third baby and if I didn't save the baby stuff from the others that was my bad and not the responsibility of the family and friends to provide me with more.

I think people just need to lighten up and say what they mean, no beating around the bush or making excuses for themselves. If it is a close friend I'll say, "Hell No, I Won't Go" and they always laugh.

If I think it is someone who can take no for an answer, I'll usually say something like "I prefer not to shop that way." Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who won't take no for an answer. When you know you're going to be treated to a litany of reasons why their home based business is better/different than all the others you've experienced, sometimes it is just easier to have an excuse handy. And I'm not at all ashamed that I use my spouse as a fall guy, and vice versa. We are a team, and we back each other up like that, because we care more about each other than we care about somebody's home business.

My "close" friends already know how I feel, so I don't need to have excuses for them. But it's not really worth the hassle/effort to explain my abhorrence of direct marketing to someone I'm not close to. I don't think the fact that my spouse and I rely on each other for this type of backup makes either of us weak, co-dependent, or domineering. Just the opposite. I think it makes us a strong, well matched, successful team.

I could have lied but I chose not to because that's not how adults handle their business.

Adults handle their business however they want to. It's one of the perks of being an adult.

Adults know when they're being baited. Goodbye.

Children say the darnedest things...

While, as adults, we want to confront situations and not shy away from them, I think everyone here acknowledges the need for civility. When one feels like a comment might be "mean," as an adult, we often use different words to express the same outcome without disrespecting others.

Children only have limited experience and vocabulary, and are generally self-centered without the ability to show empathy to others. Empathy is a learned behavior. It is one of the reasons why an only-child has more difficulty learning to share, especially before they are in a social environment like school.

The choices we make as adults to show empathy to others are based on what has shown to give us the best results for our situation. Some people like to be confronted with the truth, even if it hurts. Those people are likely to respond the way they would like someone to respond to them. That is not wrong, it is a choice. Others would like someone to buffer the response, so as not to hurt their feelings. Those people are also more likely to respond the way they would like someone to respond to them. That is also not wrong. It is a choice.

Either way, the answer is understood, and it is up to the two people in the conversation to determine if they felt like they were respected, and gave respect, during the dialog. If both parties leave the conversation with respect, then the method employed worked. If those involved are OK with the conversation, then handling it another way is just an alternate method to achieve the same result.

And as js stated, your response of course can change depending on how you, as an individual, reacts to different situations. If you are more comfortable saying "Hell, no" to anyone who asks the question, you risk alienating someone who doesn't know you well enough to smile. But does it matter? That's up to you. If you are more comfortable changing your response based on the other person (stranger, friend, family, etc.), then you are in a constant state of trying to come up with the right way to respond. But does it matter? That's up to you.

I can see valid points in both ways to handle it, but I don't judge either. I think both are fine, as long as the person is responding in a way they would like to be responded to. If it entails disrespect, well...that's another ball of wax.

Well said, Justice!

I have Jehovah Witness that visit several times a year. They are the same two women so I would guess this is their territory. They are two of the sweetest women and each time I thank them for stopping by, refuse their offering and wish them a good day. I think they keep coming back as they never get a rebuff for their efforts. As a non-believer I want them to realize that non-believers can be a good as they believe their faith grants them. What does it take from me but a few seconds of my time? Like, "Oh bummer, I could have been cleaning the kitty litter, but no, I had to deal with "them", so I think that tiny effort is well worth my time and theirs.

My sister would stand hands on hips, scowl on face ready for full on attack whenever anyone came around with a petition, religious pamphlet or whatever. She was in a tizzy afterward. My approach leaves out the anger and tizzy so this is what I prefer. Different approaches for different people and that's just fine with me.

"Oh bummer, I could have been cleaning the kitty litter..."

Oh geez!...there you go again, now I need ANOTHER keyboard. Coffee this time! :-)

My bad, Justice, just trying to lighten the load.

PowerIsKnowledge, when I was 5 years old I stood before my birthday cake and announced, "I will never tell a lie because I'll get a spanking anyway and I will not cry "wait for me" any longer" My older siblings were continually setting me up for a fall and fibbing about me. I decided that I would not be like them as it made me feel terribly bad and it was cheating. I wasn't about to practice this with my friends.

But none of this has anything to do with the topic, does it?

Well if we include self-deception then perhaps it has everything to do with the topic. If we can without conscious tell another a fib to get us where we are going then how different is this in telling ourselves that having a mate will solve all our problems? Isn't this the bottom line about being true to oneself in contrast to being dependent upon others? If women are still in a 17th century mindset they certainly haven't learned to be their own lead in life and must make excuses for themselves.

Well, as we get older, we understand that there is a difference in lying that hurts someone else and truthful rudeness that hurts someone else. The end result is that we as humans show respect for others, and if that means softening a statement so as not to intentionally hurt someone else, and the statement itself doesn't hurt someone else, you're on the right road.

It is absolutely OK for one to go through life not caring about how their statements affect others, falling back on the "truth" as a reason. That is a choice and it will affect who wants to be around you. Friends and family (and everyone) like to be around people where they feel good about themselves in their company. If someone feels like crap about themselves when they are around you, they're going to not want to be around you. If you care about how others feel in your presence, the "truth" is not necessary in all cases. If you're not going to go to a dinner party, the reasons are inconsequential to the person inviting. If you say "No, I really don't like your children," because it is the truth, it hurts them. If you say, "I can't make it, I have something else going on," the end result is the same, but the person doesn't feel emotionally connected to your response.

Neither is better than the other, it's just a personal choice. Is your goal to get them to be more aware of their nasty children, or is it solely to decline the offer? For an adult, it's the ability to choose using empathy, or black and white "truth, even if it hurts" mentality. Children don't have this ability, so they go with whatever is on their mind. Please understand, I'm not saying those that use the "truth in all cases" have no empathy. I'm saying that they have a choice to make keeping in mind that their response has an effect. To not be aware of that would be juvenile, to understand it and use it, or not use it, to have a desired effect is an adult just making a decision.