Iceland, a country that wants to punish the bankers responsible for the crisis

PIK:

Do we have any agencies that aren't corrupt?

Maybe the Consumer Protection Agency ... But that's still getting its feet under it. I would trust Elizabeth Warren to be fair, and to go sfter criminal bankers in an Icelandic fashion -- at least until the SYSTEM gets into her system and she rots away from the inside like nearly everyone who goes to work in DC.

This is a two layer problem of BS. For example, Goldman Sachs paid an out court settlement SEC fine of $550 million for derivatives fraud. The CEO was NOT fired. Lloyd Blankfein went on to make $14 million last year plus bonuses and stock options. JP Morgan was busted for illegally foreclosing on military personnel deployed to the Mideast. Then recently they had an out of court settlement SEC fine of $173 million for derivatives fraud that significantly contributed to the recession. The CEO has not been fired. Jamie Dimon last year got a total compensation of $27 million.

What do these examples tell you? It confirms what Matt Taibbi said, that Wall Street keeps cheating because they have yet to be held fully accountable. $550 or $173 million sounds like a lot of money to most of us, but it is chump change given the profits these white collar criminal corporations have been making off of white collar crime. So what if you get caught one out of one hundred times?

What it tells me is that the people that hired these CEO's know that they are committing white collar crimes and expect them to get caught occasionally. That's OK with them as long as the overall profits are high. The people that hire and retain these CEO are the Wall Street billionaire elites that are always unidentified, untouchable and above the law. If they come anywhere close to being busted, everyone from congress to law enforcement would get bribed millions of dollars to look the other way.

We need to seriously punish these slobs! Everyone owes it to themselves to watch the 2010 award winning documentary "The Inside Job" about the white collar crime that caused of the 2008 recession. We are not talking about out of court settlements and SEC fines, we are talking about prison time and Wall Street giants getting divided up. They should not be allowed to be "too big to let fail." They need to be divided up into banking/savings corporations which will retain government support and protection and investment corporations that will be given a loud and clear message that they will not be bailed out again. They will be forced into bankruptcy like Lehman Brothers with executive assets seized to pay debts.

It is disgusting to think of taxpayers - Wall Street's victims - footing the bill for bailing out the white collar criminals that victimized them. And now that Wall Street has bounced back from their recession and Main Street is just beginning to show some signs of recovery, that recovery is being compromised by Wall Street speculating on oil and food to cause nation wide inflation.

In short, Wall Street needs to get ripped a new orifice before we will be allowed to recover.

Thank you for the link.

They refused to pay there loan debt as a whole nation.

Awesome!! The debt is BS.

mountainmike:

I agree with al that you said in #2.3 with the exception that I would not recommend that anyone watch "Inside Job."

Its main function and contribution to the argument is to legitimize that official account of the financial collapse, which fails to name and shame the perpetrators at the top of the pyramid.

@ Sage..The outrage is hear...Just misplaced :)

Got LOTS of outrage Grey..problem is...

Even on a small scale, like here in my small-town usa (5,000 pop.) .. if you go to a council meeting, and question bout anything, you're considered a 'boat rocker'. Trouble maker..etc.

Probably not much different than the vine here, I'd guess any of us that have spoken negative bout anything, ESPECIALLY government.. are on .. *a special list* .

So, we learn to just sit here and gripe..holding it in, in the real world. Then...SNAP.....

(and people wonder why others 'go postal'..pfftttttttttttttttt)

Oooops..........bet I got put on *that list*........................ again....... lmao

I still think one of our problems is how life on 'the hill' is. Don't matter who we vote in, with whatever good intentions they have. Once on 'the hill', they sit back, and ask.... "we get reimbursed for that? And THAT? and I get a gov. credit card for all of that too? (etc etc)....wow....hmmm..... Maybe I DON'T want to rock the boat after all..this is sweet.

Those thinking that the PUBLISHED pay (and bennies) is ALL they get....well............

The outrage is being deflected into partisan camps. According to Republicans, Democrats are to blame and according to Democrats, Republicans are to blame. Which is all a bit irrelevant to the fact that Wall Street is the one most directly to blame and they have not been held accountable. As long as the two parties fixate on partisan bickering, Wall Street goes untouched. The billionaire elites that hire and retain white collar criminal CEOs are the ones most to blame and they seem to be above the law. If anyone were to bring up an investigation of the elites in congress, there would be an immediate reaction of millions of dollars going to the other party to obstruct the investigation.

I wish that Americans had the sense of outrage and determination to see justice done that the people of Iceland have.

A lot of this is because of the media. The people Ireland are not the only ones pissed off at their banking sector. Try France, the UK, Spain, Iceland, and Poland, yet you would never know it when you turn on the news. Because they are not covering it.

The American people have been lied to and misled about every U.S. military intervention since World War II. The fraud that IS THE (current) FEDERAL RESERVE BANK, was set up from the beginning, purposely to deceive U.S. citizens. The very name was chosen to mislead Americans into believing that the FED is part of the U.S. government.

The pundit's "propaganda" whether right leaning or otherwise plays to the arrogance generated by employing the divide and conquer" (military maneuver) psychology that creates animosity and a divided nation. We are being played or manipulated whether right or left leaning by the corporate owned and controlled mainstream media.

The Pentagon directs our military who, under orders, denies access to the press, that would, in any way, report anything that conflicts with stated military missions, their goals and their results. Iraq, Panama, Chile and now Afghanistan are primary examples.

Fear of the strength in numbers that citizens of this U.S. retain, if undivided, necessitates the control of the media, and denial by the pentagon of unbiased press coverage and investigative reporting of events around the world.

When actual press coverage of Vietnam exposed the devastation caused by our government's intervention there, the American people rose up and demanded an end to it. Hence, the often repeated theory that Vietnam was lost in the press... Nixon resigned rather than be impeached, reportedly due to "Watergate", but additioanlly to avoid exposure of the bombing of Cambodia (The Killing Fields) that was undertaken without the knowledge or approval by the U.S congress. The only way these atrocities can continue is without the knowledge or disclosure to the American people of our government's intent, goals and motivation for military action in foreign nations.

Any contradictory evidence is quickly erradicated, which leads to fear of victims who are bullied by that fear. In Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida, tyranny by corporate controlled politicians (governors and republican state majorities who support them) has been unleashed, exposing that corporate control no longer necessitates being disguised. It is being introduced state by state in this country, testing the waters or "potential blowback" by patriotic Americans who refuse to relinquish their freedom, constitutional rights, and the sovereignty of their country.

Hopefully, the surge of a new wave of democracy awakened by the overt tyrannical actions of the Wisconsin legislature, governor and now corporate controlled justice who can freely, physically attack anyone or anything that gets in his way, will add to the outrage that all Americans need to experience in order to fight back against the spread of the tyranny that can and will spread throughout this nation if it isn't nipped in the bud.

Icelanders are courageous in their efforts against the concentrated power that pervades their economy, robbing their country and citizens of wealth and power. Central banking systems have brought down every world empire since the Roman Empire. Our constitution specifically states that only the U.S. government has the right and power to print and control U.S. currency. Without first addressing that constitutional provision, the FEDERAL RESERVE ACTS OF 1913 AND 1935, and the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK are a violation of the U.S. constitution.

The Founding Father's experience with central banking systems and the devastation they impose on all great nations, led to that specific provision. It was their effort to guard against the newly formed independent, United States democratic government from being controlled and undermined by a central banking system.

News of the Icelandic revolution against the central banking system that destroyed their economy is dangerous stuff in this country. Look for reporting on it to be minimized or eliminated. Our corporate owned and operated government can't risk such knowledge reaching U.S. citizens. They still fear our strength in numbers can defeat their ongoing effort to privatize everything in this country. Whether at the voting booth or massive demonstrations of a united electorate, the will of the American people to fight against tyranny can defeat them...and they know it.

Cripplingly poor decisions, decisions made outside a prudent mans realm. Decisions weighted singlemindedly by profits. Yeah Jail is a good start!

Well some people get arrested/punished for making 'poor decisions' like filing taxes 'with bad advice', driving drunk or leaving a kid in a hot car. Surely they had no 'criminal intend' but just chose to NOT be responsible and 'think it all through'. The pains and hardships this grand-scheming looting and pilfering caused make any pirate and con-artist (selling snake-oil products)look like amateur boy-scouts!

I'm pretty sure that under most European legal systems, people can be arrested on the suspicion that they have committed a crime and bail assigned to prevent the suspect of fleeing the country while an investigation is completed. Maybe someone with more knowledge can confirm this.

So it's cool if I accidentally burn down your house by throwing gasoline and matches at it? After all, your loses are merely financial, and my actions - while reckless - wouldn't necessarily cause your house to burn down. Just an unlucky break. Oopsie.

Here is the prime example of the white collar crime the victimized Iceland and the American public. Wall Street giants went into a selling derivatives selling frenzy. Bundles of mortgages and loans were sold together, allegedly a full range of AAA rated safe loans with low return to BBB rated risky loans with high yield. Sound reasonable? Everyone from pension plans to state to foreign countries bought them. Then when the buyers got a change to study each loan they had bought they discovered toxic loan after toxic loan are were beyond redemption. They discovered they had been $crewed. Central to all of this were the rating agencies that were lying their butts off because they were owned by Wall Street.

Then hiding those toxic loans into those bundles became the magical alternative to the old fashioned cooking the books. That was the new way to get rid of liabilities off of the books.

it is amazing, we are constantly told we are responsible for our own actions.. especially from the right. But when a rich person does it... well suddenly not only are they not responsible but we have to honor their bonus contracts as well.

Looks like not a lot of people thinking it out. The other things mentioned are crimes, and have nothing to do with the point. How many of you would be okay with being locked up, not for a crime, but because someone else just doesn't like what you did? Are you okay with locking up anyone that gets an abortion? What about getting locked up for homeschooling your kids? Okay with getting locked up for exercising your right to defend yourself? What about getting locked up for not following the 'correct' faith?

Under a system where you can get locked up without violating the law....every single one of you are candidates for a cell.

Banks and investment houses violated basic tenets of corporate conduct. Organizations exist that teach proper conduct at each level of responsibility, whether CEO, CFO, etc. They explain the legal ramifications of corporate misconduct, these are spelled out in the papers governing the body. Now I am trying to say it nice failing that these thieving @!$%#s destroyed a world economy, Fannie Mae,Freddie Mac were complicit, to suggest solely responsible is to deflect from responsibility. Every mortgage holder particularly those who were subsidiary to Home Builders knew @!$%#in well what was happening. There are consequences for corporate misconduct, for ignoring prudence, for ignoring paid professionals, for falsifying documents, it is appropriate that jail terms are meted out.

So you are okay with going to jail or prison when someone decides they don't approve of your actions?

The issue has nothing to do with your personal feelings about their actions.

Under a system where you can get locked up without violating the law....every single one of you are candidates for a cell.

The people who were arrested were undoubtedly released on bail within hours, if not minutes of arriving at the police station. It's my understanding that arrests like these are to ensure that people who are aware that they are under investigation for crimes stick around for the results. There is no intent to deny them due process.

The only reason ringo that they aren't in prison no is that they've either bought off wormed their way around the legal system. Which a few documentaries of these criminals weave and dodge and claim they knew nothing, like Sgt Schultz.

They are liars and perjurers, and if the Icelandic population choose NOT to believe their lies, good for them. Any jury that would NOT convict these people, simply because they said they didn't do it, is too stupid to be believed.

Oh yeah, red, is that what you're looking for in a country? 'You're going to jail despite not having committed a crime.....unless you give us money. That's a corrupt and disgusting practice, with no place in any country striving toe even the least bit decent.

And ryoushi, you seem pretty quick to condemn without any evidence of crime. 'Looks guilty to me, lock em up' sounds like a good system to you?

The general idea on this thread from everyone but me seems to be that enough wrongs will eventually add up to a right.

your flogging a dead mule, ringo

I usually have to read your stuff twice Ray, it is worth the effort good comment.

I'm sorry J-bird, its not my intent to complicate the issues just explain my opinionated thinking. In regards to the thinking supporting your comments I most always concur. Thanks

J-bird & ray...

The CFTC had its hands visibly tied during the Clinton administration. Clinton had appointed Brooksley Born to head the commission. When she went over Alan Greenspan's head to testify about the necessity for transparency and regulation of the OTC markets, Greenspan followed her testimony, claiming he believed that Ms. Born was over-reacting to what he believed was an anomaly. He lied.

Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, Arthur Levitt and Greenspan then proceeded to do everything in their power to discredit Brooksley Born. Arthur Levitt has since expressed regret for his role in destroying Ms. Born. However, this took place in the 90's, and it exposed the fact that the chief economic advisers to our presidents since and including Clinton are behind the effort to neuter the CFTC.

Clinton then rammed NAFTA through congress. When he couldn't get the two-thirds majority senate approval required by the constitution for all treaties the U.S. is committed to, Clinton declared victory after calling NAFTA an agreement. There is no definable difference between an agreement and a treaty. Bush 43 proceeded with NAFTA plus and CAFTA, approved by his rubber-stamp congressional majority. All of these trade agreements grant corporate power over government in Chapter 11, Investor-to-Sate provisions of the original NAFTA agreement.

It's possible the U.S. economy is intentionally being undermined. In the 1930s, Marine Major General, Smedley Butler, went before congress to report that an attempt was made to recruit him in a planned plot to overthrow the U.S. government by a group of wealthy industrialists.

At that time, Prescott Bush, father of Bush 41 and grandfather of Bush 43, was under investigation as the director of the Hamburg-America Line, noted for Nazi propaganda activities. A staged military coup led by Gerald McGuire, in Butler's sworn testimony, was aimed at installing a facist dictatorship, replacing FDR's government in order to preserve their interests. Prescott Bush was among the wealthy industrialists involved. Smedley Butler'effort before congress, exposed ...and put an end to it.

Are we witnessing an intentional economic collapse that can set the stage to continue the effort that once threatened our democratic form of government and had intentions of replacing it with a facist dictatorship? Bush 43 publicly stated that he had no problem with dictatorships ...as long as he was the dictator.

The same presidential economic advisers have been carried over from one administration to the next...All of whom, have publicly demonstrated their intent to cripple the agency that could regulate and stop it, while the worst of the fraudulent trading in the OTC markets continues.

Afghanistan bankrupted every nation that attempted the same effort that we're involved in. Bush 43 bankrupted every business he was involved in (except the one his father bailed out), prior to his 43's presidency. Will that winning combination prove to be the final nail in the coffin for us, as well?

Not a single terrorist involved in 9/11 came from Afghanistan. Osama was trying to hide and escape through Afghanistan. This business of keeping terrorists from returning to Afghanistan is pure propaganda. Afghanistan is home to the Taliban and most Afghans prefer the Taliban to U.S. involvement.

Other than providing the required security for financing, insuring and construction of the Tapi pipeline, our military has no business being there.

Insurance companies are just in the way of real health care.

I believe they(IC) are the primary reason health care has become so expensive.

yes, lisa

The FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is the root of all evil in this country. It is not part of the U.S. government as most believe. The same corporate giants that necessitated TARP are major stockholders in the private corporation that is the FED. The American people were conned into borrowing and handing the banks obligation free cash, by former treasury secretary, Hank Paulson, who had been granted an ethics waiver by the Bush administration that wasn't disclosed until after TARP was approved by congress. The American taxpayers are obligated to pay back those funds at face value, plus interest.

It might be argued that those funds were repaid. However, Ben Bernanke testified before congress under oath, that those funds were deposited in off-shore international banks, and he refused to furnish a list of the banks to congress. So they didn't go back into the treasury, reducing the principle of the TARP loan.

The FED then loaned the TARP FUNDS to China at reduced interest rates. We borrow from China to make payments on the deficit at higher interest rates than China pays to borrow it from the FED (our bank?) ...The FED profits twice. Once from the TARP loan that we pay, then from lending the TARP money to China. China profits once by lending the U.S the money we borrow from them to pay the FED. And the U.S. taxpayers are the only losers in the game.

Bernie Madoff recently made a statement claiming the U.S. Government is the greatest Ponzi scheme in history. The explanation above is part of the reason.

The U.S. constitution contains a provision that states ONLY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT is authorized to print and control U.S. currency. That provision was never addressed prior to enacting the FEDERAL RESERVE ACTS OF 1913 AND 1935. Many believe that the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IS OPERATING IN VIOLATION OF U.S. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.

The White House and Timothy Geitner opposed the most recent attempt to pass legislation that would require an audit and transparency of the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK, which lead to its defeat in the House of Representatives. The FEDERAL RESERVE ACT OF 1913, grants the FED BANK the power to print and control our currency with no transparency or accountability.

Ben Bernanke has testified under oath that there are billions of U.S. tax dollars missing from the FED...He went on to testify that he has no idea where it is. Our deficit problems are not caused by spending on medicare, medicaid, and social security. They are being caused by the fraud perpetrated on this nation by the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK.

Icelanders have the right idea...Hope they are successful in their efforts to root out the thieves and put them in jail.

I guess we just have to wait until the majority of people in the USA know they are being screwed.

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford

yes, lisa. might help if we quote facts and help them understand.

Lisa, people know they are being screwed! Over half think that if we continue to deregulate enterprises that will somehow set things straight, when what we really need is more regulation. We'll NEVER be able to convince people otherwise as long as we have people like Rush Limpballs and Fox News. As long as they can keep a good portion of the population confused, they win!

We need to think bigger. It's time for a revolution! Tear it down and start over.

Well if when they had deregulate the banks they had also legalized drugs and hemp and deregulated health care, agriculture, and oil the market it would have balanced out by now what they did though is only deregulate the banking industry an put more restrictions on the rest of the markets which was a real tragedy for the peoples financial freedom.

It was like making everything but banking illegal and if you were not in the banking industry you got screwed. People do not seem to realize that making any commodity illegal puts a choke hold on the market. Just think if paper and coffee were made illegal and know that drugs and hemp being illegal does not make it go away it drives it to the underground black market. Can you imagine how the paper and fiber industry must have changed when hemp one of the main materials in paper and clothing could no longer be grown, bought or, sold. I wonder how many business were closed and people lost their jobs during the great depression when hemp was made illegal? I bet WR Hearst got richer because he owned so many forests. Most people who were alive during that time probably don't have much of a voice because they were children and may not even be able to remeber the hemp connection to the great depression in the matter but, I am sure it is one of the reasons the depression lasted over a decade. Here is a real good article on hemp that tells of all the uses thru out history hemp uses

Off with their heads.

Get yourself into a mess and then prosecute your scapegoats for things that are not against the law is not something a civilized nation would do.

Why not? I think that is what makes Iceland civilized............the nerve of them to set a trap and then wait for the bankers to fall into it and then criminalize them for taking the bate. That is just too civilized. America has legalize stealing too. However, America is not civilized enough to prosecute Wall Street or the Bankers.

Doing away with law to lock people up because you don't like them sounds civilized to you? You must have a very low standard of behavior.

I have to lower the standard of behavior for true criminal behavior!! Otherwise there is no way to stop it from destroying America. It is either lower the standards or loose our nation. How do you want it?

You have to lower your standards or the country is destroyed? I don't think you thought that one through.

Yes I did. You see when our elected public servants legalize stealing and lying for the bankers and wall street; then the only way "we the people" can stop them is to become criminals too!! So "we the people" decide to not pay our mortgages, credit cards, and turn off the lights and gas. We stop going to work for the wealthy corporations and become none taxpayers. Then see how long this nation will last; even with immigrating new people. It takes a criminal to defeat a criminal. Yes America will become one big prison nation! Holler if you hear me!!

Well you've certainly lost track of the conversation. Let me know when you find your way back.

If Iceland want to punish the bankers; main street should want to punish the bankers too. You do know the bankers deal with credit cards right? If our government is broke then they are planning on other ways to steal "we the people" earnings. Do your really believe the bankers and our legislators care about main street? The point is "we the people" should be tired of just talking about it; "we the people" should be about it!! You know stop complaining. Action speaks louder than our words to legalized criminal behaviors.

DBW--I hear you, and I agree. But instead of simple non-compliance, I advocate a system of systematic cheats and looting to get it back.

After all, I'm no Gandhi.

No! Withholding consumer power will bring down Corporate America and take away their wealth at the same time. When "we the people" go to court, then our case will be heard; if "we the people" go to prison the few state taxpayers will have to take care of "we the people." You see "we the people" the consumers show our power by not purchasing all of the corporation products. Once in prison "we the people" will have to learn how to get along with each other and not become corrupted by the prison industrial complex. Our point will be made and the sound will be heard all over the world!!! "We the people" will have everything that "we the people" have been paying for in prison free from the taxpayers of America. And "We the people" will not be prison slaves. The theme behind our consumers movement is "Give us Liberty or Give Us Death in or out of prison!!" A nation cannot survive without the middle class workers and that is factual at this moment in the United States of America where our middle class is disappearing by the thousands. Remember our Constitution is a revolutionary document not a white flag. Americans are revolutionary at heart; somewhere we have lost our heart for our nation. Holler if you hear me!!

yo!

While I agree withholding consumer activity can be used beneficially, I am opposed to masochistic methods.

We can take the corporations down, one-by-one, if we unite and everyone boycotts the same one until it is gone.

But I'm not going to jail because it is non-violence on my part. Putting me in jail is an act of aggression, a deprivation of liberty. It is not pacifist.

I would rather chop off their heads and then we can tell them, try again.

...and changed the system in place by nationalizing their banks, democratizing economic decisions, and rewriting their constitution.

Now, that's what I'm talkin' about... revolution, baby!

Could we pull it off here?

Sure. If we annex the South out of the United States. Don't forget to include Texas.

Someone needs to build Perry an inflatable Texas and float it out into the Gulf of Mexico. He could become the monarch of his new country. All the evangelical Christian right wing Texans could join him in shooting pistols in the air, spitting chewing tobacco and strutting around like low IQ real Texan cowpokes in 20 gallon hats and boots. He would just have to be careful not to shoot a hole in his new country and sink it.

the reason Texas would never drift away is oklahoma sucks, mountain.

We need to put them all in with Bernie Madoff and build a dormitory for them. They could get their minds off of how to $crew America and start worrying about dropping the bar of soap during communal showers.