Bernie Sanders outs the Koch Brothers' "Echo Chamber" on Social Security | Video Cafe

Covert Operations: How the Koch's are Messing with the Mechanics of Democracy.

The above link is another "must read" in regards to these political hacks.

Interesting video. The biggest chunk of meat in it though is really just spin. What are the charges:

• They fund think tanks. Great and?
• They've created an echo chamber. Well, is the information in that echo chamber accurate, because that is what matters.
• They want to privatize part of SS. Well that is a position of debatable merit, isn't it.

What does the video talk about that we can check on. Something that matters, and that isn't just a matter of difference in opinion.

Oh yes, Social Security is actuarially bankrupt. His only real counterpoint to the charge it was this:

Social Security has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus

Woops, that is sort of true, but it gives a false impression. Social Security has $2.6 trillion dollars in government securities, but the government spent that money already. By law, any SSA revenue in excess of expenditures must be used to buy government securities (remember the lockbox myth). The government then spends that money as part of the general treasury.

So lets say that the SSA has to pay out more than they took in, that means that rather than rolling over all of the interest they get on their existing securities they have to spend some of it (they had to last year). Which means the government takes in less money than the year prior, and the deficit goes up. CNN also has published why the trust fund is essentially useless, are they Koch funded now too?

Even the SSA trustee have said the trust fund is pointless:

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

SSA doesn't have $2.6 trillion saved up, they have a stack of IOUs. It would be like if you had $20 in your left pocket, but you put it in your right pocket and replace it with an IOU. Then you spend the $20. You now have an IOU that says it is worth $20, but you don't actually have the $20 anymore. You have to go get that $20 to pay yourself back. That is the SS surplus. One hand promising to pay the other back.

Notice nowhere in the video does he deny SSA spends more than it takes in. Because it does, he just has a problem with anyone connected to the Koch brothers saying it.

But how about when MSNBC says it, CBS, the New York Times, Politifact, or the CBO. Oh wait, that's right, they aren't funded by the Koch brothers, so he doesn't talk about how they all say the same thing. But they aren't in the echo chamber then, why would they be saying it. Oh, becasue it's true.

It is actuarially bankrupt, and even though it still has enough money to make current payments that doesn't change that fact.

The Koch brother job is to do everything they can to dismember government in general...

And Senator Sanders job is to be honest with his constituents, that video is not honesty, it is a lie wrapped in a cloak of truthful opinion to hide it's ugliness.

It is worth watching, it is good to know how Senator Sanders operates.

Jake-413451

Read my link and your questions and minimization will become moot. It does a better job at connecting the dots and explaining the consequences to those who see such as benign.

bluearcher

Actually I read that some time ago. Last year when it was published in the New Yorker actually. And of course since then as viner after viner has seeded it or linked to it.

will become moot

Really, so what I posted and gave several links to back up my statements aren't true? Actually no, you actually haven't said word one about that, your linked article doesn't address it in the slightest either. Hmm, so how about a little less distraction and a little more meat.

Do you agree or disagree with my statements, and those of MSNBC, CNN, CBS, the New York Times, and the CBO on the financial footing of the SSA?

Do you have any response for how the determination of an actuarially bankrupt SSA can be determined?

And of course since then as viner after viner has seeded it or linked to it.

Since you did not refute the facts of the article, why take issue with the frequency of seeding? Especially since the seeded article doesn't deal with the SS issue?

Do you really think the Koch brothers give a rats ass for the condition of Social Security? There only interest is their bottom line and legislation not interfering with their "Ayn Randian" conservative values. You apparently didn't understand the point of the article I seeded (hint: it wasn't about SS).

Funny considering you mention distraction..the very stuff of the Koch brothers.

you did not refute the facts of the article

Because the article has nothing to do with what I spoke to. You presented it as upon reading it wonder render moot and answer all questions. It does not.

The video is about what the Koch brothers have said, and what organizations they have funded have said, and about what Senator Sanders has implied about Social Security . Your post speaks not word one on that, as I have already said.

It therefore is a distraction, a deflection and an attempt to change the subject. Funny I mention it, because it is what your doing.

why take issue with the frequency of seeding

I didn't, I just made sure you were aware it is hardly new material, it has been harped on for almost a year now. Seeing it as the pocket response to any and all questions related to the Koch brothers reminds me of the old line, to the man who only has a hammer everything looks like a nail.

You apparently didn't understand the point of the article I seeded (hint: it wasn't about SS).

Wow, no kidding. As I already said, I have read the article, I 'get' the article too. However, again, that article has nothing to do with what I posted about the SSA. So here is the hint you've apparently missed spelled out a bit more, If I wanted to discuss that article I would post on one of the 30 or so seeds about that article already on the vine. But I didn't, I posted here, to this video, and specifically have charged that it is misleading and I think intentionally so.

Let me know when you have a response to what I wrote and aren't trying to change the subject, again.

Do you really think the Koch brothers give a rats ass for the condition of Social Security?

No comment on that?

It's all about motivation. Ignoring the Koch's motivation for their stance on SS policy is unsupportable. Period.

You are divorcing their position on SS from the facts you mention. The article links the two subjects. So who is ignoring the seeded subject material now? It is not wholly about SS fiscal figures.

And it returns to this, attacking the source, ignore unpleasant facts.

I never challenged his video on their motivations. Because I am capable of checking out those facts and not be beholden to their goals. Are you?

You may have a motivation to simply not address the veracity of Senator Sanders, that won't change whether or not he is honest in the video so I don't need to address it. Motivation to state, or not state, a fact doesn't change that fact.

So, it is very easy to divorce the two. With that in mind, the video as presented is deceptive, no matter what Senator Sanders motivation might be. I have no doubt he has the best of intentions as he sees it. That does not give him license to mislead people, does it?

In fact isn't that exactly what he's accusing the Koch brothers, and others, of?

How about this, Senator Sanders is clearly motivated to pursue and get support for his goals. Do you think that would motivate him to mislead people to the veracity of the claim the SSA is actuarilly bankrupt? Does that motivation matter on judging that assessment of the SSA?