What Has The GOP Done for You Lately Part 1

Lately? How about "ever"?

I'm with trm2008, the next time they do something for Americans will be the first time.

Not a goddam thing! If the Greedy Old Party ever does anything to help the middle class then I will have a heart attack and drop dead.

#1.5

Please don't have a heart attack and die! You still have much to do in this life that is positive and compassionate to allow those charlatans to make you feel this way.

peace, friend

If you just change your question to: What has the GOP done to you lately? we could fill a book or two.

Just came back from reading some posts over at Faux on the NY state election...... In just ten minutes time I swear my I.Q. dropped a couple of points.

I watched as a very realistic assesment of yesterdays election was given by what I would consider a moderate Pub, and the poster was pounced upon by at least 6 others calling him a Lib or whatever. I've not seen anything like this short of a feeding frenzy of piranha.

We moderates, and progressives talk about compromise to move this country forward..... I don't see it as being possible.

The GOP hasn't done anything for me... and that's exactly how I want it.

Now if I can only get the Democrats to leave me the hell alone... I think I'd be better off... I'm getting tired of taking care of myself and then watching money from my work go to the government to be paid to a portion of people who are capable enough to do the same.

And what's the point of doing a part 2 anyway?, you aren't convincing any moderates with a cheerleading piece such as this. You certainly aren't going to inspire any constructive discussion, especially when the bias is so forward.

Knowledge doesn't come from tunnel vision and an unwillingness to open one's mind to other realms of thinking and perspective. This is a problem that will plague people loyal to one party or another.

The United States is a nation. You pay taxes to be a part of that nation, and the government uses that money to help the people of that nation. If you don't like it, go form your own country. But as a fair warning, you shouldn't expect that new country of yours to last more than five or six minutes. Pay your unreasonably low taxes and stop complaining.

I don't see this as a cheerleading piece. I see it as an honest-to-god question that the GOP doesn't have an answer for. The Republicans have spent every waking moment of the past 30+ years pandering to corporations and the wealthy, flaunting their repeatedly-failed trickle down theory as if it somehow magically works, recession after recession after recession. They couldn't care less about the American worker, public or private. They only care about the CEO, and they're so disenfranchised from Main Street that I cringe every time one of them says some ignorant remark about "real" America. Real America is fed up with the GOP. Real America is kicking them to the curb in 2012. And all of the tea bags in a Lipton's factory won't save them this time around.

Excellent article, Power! :)

They couldn't care less about the American worker, public or private. They only care about the CEO, and they're so disenfranchised from Main Street that I cringe every time one of them says some ignorant remark about "real" America. Real America is fed up with the GOP

Sorry, just your opinion, and a very biased one at that.

You're going to have define "real America" yourself if you wish to get away clean with THAT assertion.

It IS nothing more than a cheerleading piece.

But thats what Newsvine is all about - cheering for Obama and the Dems, while doing everything and anything possible to denigrate those that dont believe as you do.

If you're trying to "sell" someone on the notion that the Dems have a much better platform and plan, you do a very poor job of it.

Referring to everyone else that disagrees as "ignorant", and "out of touch" will not garner you many supporters ( and not that you did, Matt, but it happens every single day).

No one comes on Newsvine to "Get Smarter Here", as the slogan goes. Its just preaching to the choir, overwhelmingly by the same people every day.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The GOP hasn't done anything for me... and that's exactly how I want it.

Now if I can only get the Democrats to leave me the hell alone

Thats the most astute post I've seen in days - as they said on "In Living Color" -

Two snaps up!!

What has the GOP done for you lately?

Reminded me, over and over, why I left the GOP in the early '90s. Affirmation is nice.

Good thing, too, 'cause I could never pass their party-purity litmus test these days.

Nope...and it wouldnt matter one bit if I did.

What's the GOP done for me lately?

Pissed me off to the point of political action.

The same thing they do every day, use questionably obtained power to take money from me and give it to some guy with a pile of money he doesn't need.

RatPoison

you aren't convincing any moderates with a cheerleading piece such as this.

You seriously consider yourself a moderate?? Only if the center line of this highway has been repainted in the right-side ditch -- headed for a big tree.

You seriously consider yourself a moderate?? Only if the center line of this highway has been repainted in the right-side ditch -- headed for a big tree.

They don't believe in measuring, let god drive the truck that paints the lines and if god wills it ram into a tree so be it.... He would be offended I guess if we use the brains he gave us to figure out the way micro/macro economics work and use our knowledge accordingly.

RatPoison:

The GOP hasn't done anything for me... and that's exactly how I want it.

I agree 100%. When government "does something" for someone (correction - a group of people based on certain criteria), it's like selective babysitting.

I will continue to vote for Ron Pauls. However, I know that the bulk of society has been bribed with their own borrowed money, and there is no doubt that this will continue, eroding our standard of living.

Per capita, government has increased greatly since 1960, with both liberal and conservative adminstrations since then. The proof for me comes with these questions, asked for both 1960 and 2011:

What is the size of the average family?

How many total hours does the household work?

What is the home ownership rate?

The answers in 2020 and 2030 will certainly be more somber, as a direct result of the legions of bribed voters. Have fun paying.

I agree 100%. When government "does something" for someone (correction - a group of people based on certain criteria), it's like selective babysitting.

If you don't want clean cheap water, clean air, food/drug regulations, road/bridges, power why not go to a country like somalia that doesn't care what you do. Put your money where your mouth is and support unbridled capitalism, support a government that doesn't 'interfere' in your misdeeds. The rest of us prefer a fair market where we can get fairly compensated for our labor and buy goods without poisons or cut corners on them. Its time to stop choosing the spoiled whiny top 2% over the 98% on the bottom who actually run the country and do all the labor and haven't had a raise in 30 years.

What Has The GOP Done for You Lately

took the house from the dems killing Obamas agenda

:)

When you filled your taxes this year and you have children and you took that 1000 dollar credit, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

Every year for the past 10 years when you had more money in your pay check do to a tax cut, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you got married in the past 10 years and paid less in the marriage tax penalty, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

Are you one of the 38 million families with children that saved an average $1,460, 43 million married couples that saved an average of $1,728, and 11 million single mothers that saved an average of $772, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you filled out your taxes this year and found out you qualified for earned income credit, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you have a low income and you live in section 8 housing when you signed your lease did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you are disabled and you cashed that ssi check did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you are disabled and you have a job and it is much easier for you to do, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you are a former member of the underclass and are now a member of the middle class, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If your a student who has gone to or are currently enrolled in a charter school, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If your a senior and you participate in Medicare part d even though it was poorly designed , did you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you head out to a national park before you start your car,get on your bike etc etc did you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you go past that national forest, do you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you visit a national monument, do you ask what has the gop done for me?

when you go out side and breath smog free air, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you contribute to a Roth ira did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If your a champion for the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge’s before you make your donation , do you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you drive you car and it now gets more miles to the gallon, do you ask what has the gop done for me?

Are you familiar with the The Montreal Protocol do you ask what has the gop done for me?

Have you visited one of the new marine preserves that cover nearly 215 million acres, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you have a child who uses the internet at school or the library and they are now protected from harmful online content, before you sent them to either place, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

If you have shopped at a department store or any store and heard over the intercom code Adam, when you helped searched for that lost child, did you ask what has the gop done for me?

Have you ever seen a picture of a missing child and its has the words The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or if you have made a donation to this nonprof, before you did so did you ask what has the gop done for me?

When you see a news headline about someone getting busted for child pornography and knew that it was possible through the National Child Victim Identification Program, did you sit and ask what has the gop done for me?

You know your right I cant think of a damn thing that the gop has done for me.

You know your right I cant think of a damn thing that the gop has done for me.

Me neither, reading your list just shows more things they failed on over and over while shutting down the government multiple times to ram more tax cuts for the wealthy through.

What Has The GOP Done for You Lately

I agree with captainobvious --if the gop does nothing more than put the brakes on the obam regime, they've done something for me...

Me neither, reading your list just shows more things they failed on over and over while shutting down the government multiple times to ram more tax cuts for the wealthy through

Right because those tax cuts for the rich are so much bigger then the trillions in tax cuts for the poor and middle class.

In your math which is bigger 2.2 trillion or 680 billion?

In your math which is bigger 2.2 trillion or 680 billion?

If you give a million people $1 and give one person $100,000, you could argue that the one guy got the short end of the stick, but your argument would be pathetically absurd.

If that one person already earned hundreds or thousands of times the income of the million people, the argument would amazingly rise up to an even higher level of absurdity and silliness.

To your original point, throwing some bones to the rubes while funneling massive amounts of giveaways and welfare to the wealthy is not a convincing example of doing something for me or my fellow citizens.

Massive really jawill11

Have you ever bothered for one moment to even look up who pays what in taxes?

Here is a nice little link for you to start at.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Congratulations folks who are citing numerous government organizations and agencies... But unfortunately you're leaving off the big ticket items... Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Dept. of Defense, etc.

It's lovely that you would want to jump to an extreme to make a point, but you're representing an assumption and running amok with it. So let's back this train up and get more specific.

The government's responsibility is to the defense of our nation (Common Defense), it is to establish Justice, and Domestic Tranquility, it is to secure the General Welfare of the nation, and most importantly... the "Blessings of Liberty".

So... if a corporation is polluting the air, water, etc which obviously is harming people... then it is the government's responsibility to bring justice for the people harmed - it is not the government's responsibility to dictate to a business practices that have nothing to do with harming unknowing and unrelated individuals. If a nation attacks us... then it is the responsibility of the government to raise an army and defend, it is not the responsibility of the government to send armies to foreign lands to assist or to stop the civil wars of other nations. It is the government's job to maintain a judicial system, one that is represented by our peers. It is the government's job to keep the peace, be it through a policing system and laws that are designed for one purpose only... to prevent people from injuring others. It is not the government's responsibility to make laws regarding marriages, abortions, etc as these things do no harm to you or me... they are the business of the people involved. It is the government's job to maintain the general welfare of the nation... but it is not the government's job to support people indefinitely just because they opt to be unmotivated or to be suffering through the consequences of their own poor decisions - it is their life to live, not mine... their responsibility to seek the goal and the path to it, not mine. And finally... Liberty... which puts all these pieces together - Liberty cannot be found when the government wants to regulate so many of the things it has no business in, it cannot be found when people are rewarded for failure off the backs of those who are struggling to make their way. There are penty of places for compromise and sympathy for your fellow man, but it must be tempered and voluntary. Thomas Jefferson said, "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." We should be able to find a system that accomplishes a task, while promoting the motivation to strive for success, not for complacency.

The Constitution was a document created with the purpose of limiting government, to keeping it restrained. It is not a document meant to let the government's power run rampant to resolve all of yours or my problems. Unless you want to sign away your life, then you need to take responsibility for it and stop expecting the government to be a Superman to your Lois Lane. If we surrender our responsibility then the end result is a homogenized nation of people who are limited to but a few paths to accomplish their dream.

A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. -Thomas Jefferson

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson

One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation. -Thomas Reed

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -C. S. Lewis

On another note, Rorschach-558483, I didn't claim that I was a moderate. However, I am certainly not a Republican, or a Democrat... so I am Independent. Where I am in a left-right spectrum is probably somewhere on the right hand side, but given today's stereotypes for "right" and "left", I don't fit that category all too entirely well.

Have you ever bothered for one moment to even look up who pays what in taxes?

Let's take a look. After 30 years of being trickled on by conservative economic policy, the middle quintile saw it's federal tax rate decrease by 4% from 18% to 14%. You might think that's a nice tax cut, but they also say their share of income decrease by 3% during that time from 16% to 13%.

Compare that to the top 1%, where during that time, their tax rate went down 8% from 37% to 29%. During that time, they saw their share of income rise 10% from 9% to 19%. The comparison is even worse for the lower quintiles.

So, the middle and lower class saw a modest decrease in tax rate while their income eroded and meanwhile, the richest people got an exponentially larger reduction in tax rate at a time when their share of the national income increased by 211%.

Explain to me again how the tax cuts have favored the non-rich? I'm just not seeing it.

Explain to me again how the tax cuts have favored the non-rich? I'm just not seeing it.

Of coarse you cant see how making more money leads to paying more taxes. Take off the class war fair blinders and maybe you can see.

Recession, new tax credits have nearly half of US households paying no federal income tax

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

Number of Americans Outside the Income Tax System Continues to Grow

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/542.html

jawill11: There are a couple of interesting graphs to look at that may help put better perspective to the regression of the middle class. Start with a date somewhere in the 1900s to present day... and look at these two areas: imports to exports, and growth rate of household income.

A potential conclusion when overlaying these two graphs is that when the balance of imports to exports shifted in this country, the growth rate of income for middle class America stagnated and plateaued. Obviously this conclusion is easily explained... first in that Americans were nolonger buying domestic products due to the rise in competitive products in the United States from other countries. In direct relation to this was the drop in consumption of American products by these same nations as they had rebuilt from WWIIs devestation or were newly industrialized. The end result is that when Americans stopped making and successfully exporting goods is the point and time the value of the American 'worker' went flat.

Consumer habits have continued their assault on America's economy. People shop to the peril of themselves and neighbors every time they bypass a domestic product or the efforts of a small business to instead buy the cheaper foreign good at the local Walmart.

Our economy has been kept afloat by the spending of tax dollars as stimulus (and this is not refering to just Obama or Bush), as well as by the continued borrowing of money - our economy is a false one and has been that way since Reagan.

We did it to ourselves. So the logical question is why the 1% of Americans considered super-rich continue to prosper while the rest of us stagnate and suffer. Well that's simple. The only people who will make a buck in this sort of scheme are owners, or people near the top of the food chain. In addition... people who are up to speed on world economics, know that while businesses locked into America only are sucking gas and dying... places in China or India or Brazil are booming. So by investing in these businesses, they maintain a great stream of income. This is opposed to a burger flipper at the fast food stand who doesn't know what stocks are let alone the DOW.

To punish this group of people for their continued growth will do nothing of good for the economy. Check out some of the papers on what some term as Global Tax Competition... with the world as it is today... if you push on these people too hard, they take their money elsewhere... which is essentially what is happening here today. If you look, you'll find that America's tax rate on investments is significantly higher than many other industrialized places in the world.

The rule of the game is simple, profit. If people can't make money here in the United States, then you can say goodbye to them. If Americans can find their entrepeneurial spirit and market themselves and products to their fellow Americans and then other foreign economies... we're screwed. The loss of "Made in the USA" has had far more consequences than most would have considered... from jobs, to the blind creation of our own competitors by consuming their products (China), to the stagnation of income and eventual loss of the middle class in America.

I highly recommend taking a look at the statistics and seeing what conclusions you draw.

JonMavrick,

Those links certainly might paint a picture of people not paying their share. However, what's not stated is that the vast majority of those people not paying taxes have seen their incomes decline over the past decade. Additionally, and this number came from a table in the second link, 90.8% of those income tax filers who paid zero taxes made less than $20,000.

Our revenue problems aren't because those on the low end aren't paying enough, it's because they aren't making enough. Raise their incomes, and they'll pay more taxes.

On the top end, the top income earners and tax payers saw their incomes go up dramatically over the last decade while their tax bills went down. I wonder why federal tax revenues are down?

What have they done for me? About the same as Democrats. Career politicians are the lowest life form, most of them end up in politics because they don't have the savvy to make a living like most people.

Who is the best person to look out for your interests and advocate for you and your family? Get a mirror and take a glance.

lamplighter

It does matter who you vote for. Why elections matter, in one graph

It does matter who you vote for. Why elections matter, in one graph

Oh. I see, if you need more income all you need to do is ask President Obama. Let me know how that works out for you.

You guys just don't want to admit what history shows, that Democrats have consistently done a better job of creating an environment of economic growth for everyone, not just those at the top of the heap.

You guys just don't want to admit what history shows, that Democrats have consistently done a better job of creating an environment of economic growth for everyone, not just those at the top of the heap.

They also fail to acknowledge the importance of a capable consumer in capitalism.... it is based around CAPITAL which means that both buyers and sellers have to have the ability to haggle and afford products, they need a say in quality, in materials, in the overall process. Ideally in true capitalism today's buyers will be tomorrow's sellers and vice versa... When one party owns 98% of all resources out there it is NOT capitalism, it is not a free market, and it is not healthy. We are on the cusp of our 'middle class' being about the same in purchasing power as middle age serfs... The strength and quality of life many of us enjoyed in the last 50 years was built solidly by the middle class earning fair wages and doing productive quality work. It was not a miracle blessing by the owner classes, it wasn't something spawned by good will from billionaires... It came about because the rich didn't have a stranglehold on the capital of our country. We will never return to that widespread prosperity until we again remove that stranglehold, whether by taxes or by fair wage laws it doesn't really matter - it is vital to the long term security of our country and failing to address the imbalance means it probably won't exist in another few decades.

In your math which is bigger 2.2 trillion or 680 billion?

In my math they both should probably not have been given back and would have paid off 2.9 trillion in debt. Of course I would rather have 100 million Americans making 60k a year than have our current setup with 400 Americans making as much as the bottom half combined (150 Milllion people).

You guys just don't want to admit what history shows, that Democrats have consistently done a better job of creating an environment of economic growth for everyone, not just those at the top of the heap.

A chart without an explanation of how the numbers were derived means NOTHING. I even went to link that the chart chart came from and the creator's reasoning is nebulous as best. Saying income increased during Democratic administrations doesn't tell the whole story...that's equivalent to throwing a pig off the roof of a building and claim that, technically, it was flying.

I can also lay claim that all major wars in the 20th century were started or escalated by Democrats, is that fair? Not really. We can also say that some of the worst bouts of inflation occurred during Democrat administrations or as a consequence of actions of a Democrat administration. Fair? Maybe. It might explain parts of the graph.

Besides, a 1% increase for the upper percentile earners is a hell of a lot more than 2.5% for the average employeel. So the "rich got richer" under Democrat administrations as well. They do much a better job than Republicans in managing these lobbyists and political contributors under the radar all while convincing the "little guy" that they are in his corner.

There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties.

You're right. The reasons the economy does better under Democratic administration is complex. However, the fact remains, the economy does better under Democratic administrations. Incomes at all levels, the stock market, debt as a % of GDP, all are better when we have a Democratic President.

You're probably not aware that not a single major economic indicator was better at the end of W's reign than when he started. Republican economic policies have been a disaster for the country and world.

However, the fact remains, the economy does better under Democratic administrations. Incomes at all levels, the stock market, debt as a % of GDP, all are better when we have a Democratic President.

I'm quite aware that Bill Clinton benefited from the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent "peace dividend". He also benefited from 8 years of stable energy prices, the explosion of digital age which put microprocessors in almost everything we use, personal computers in most houses, gaming systems cell phones, satellite TV, software houses on the map...along with all millions of jobs this new industry created in the '90's AND the increased revenue from the taxes these industries and jobs paid. all of this didn't happen overnight, almost all of it had its roots put down in the early to mid 1980's.

Clinton's "surplus" existed on paper only. It was a projection...not money sitting in a bank account somewhere just waiting for Bush to plunder. The annual savings were realized from defense cuts (see peace dividend) and welfare reform foisted on him by the 104th Republican Congress. Oh, Clinton took credit for it, but he vetoed it twice and then only signed it kicking and screaming when Dick Morris gave him polling data that fighting this could cost him the '96 election.

Clinton also conferred most favored nation status to China opening the flood gates for their stuff to get into our WalMarts. We now see how that ended up. He also allowed Loran to transfer sensitive missile guidance technology to the People's Liberation Army (some say for campaign contributions)...the result was that China's missle program moved ahead by a minimum of 20 years..putting our homeland and our Navy at greater risk.

You're probably not aware that not a single major economic indicator was better at the end of W's reign than when he started. Republican economic policies have been a disaster for the country and world.

Yes, and the economy took a 900 billion dollar hit on September 11, 2001 as well as a shaking of confidence not seen since Pearl Harbor. Bush's main focus up to 9/10/01 was No Child Left Behind, tax cuts, stem cell research and faith based initiatives. That all vanished the next day and was replaced by an open ended unfunded war...because we the people demanded that something be done. Keep in mind it's argueable that Bush's predecessor set the table for all of this with his failure to act to the 1993 WTC bombing, USS Cole and embassy bombings. Medicare Part D is a drained that was signed by Bush unfunded. Why didn't Democrats call him and the Republican majority on it? Fanny and Freddie? Both parties are equally at fault with Democrats saying everyone is entitled to a house while Republicans saying "well we can manage Fannie and Freddie smarter, better and cheaper". End result the same, people got mortgages they could afford and people like you and me who played by the rules and yet lost lost all the equity in our own houses.

As I said, not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. And you should be worried, 'cause if things get worse then be ready for the a man on a white horse (or a woman on a brown caribou) to break onto the scene to "fix" all our problems.

Hmmm, funny. I don't remember mentioning Clinton!

That all vanished the next day and was replaced by an open ended unfunded war...because we the people demanded that something be done

Eh, not so much. 9/11 was W's wet dream.

As for Clinton, are you really going all the way back to Clinton? I guess when W spent 8 years blaming everything on Clinton, it's a hard habit to break.

Clinton Administration and Terrorists

I love how you Republicans redirect when you don't like the subject. You very transparently changed the subject from W's failings to Clinton.

So, let's go back to the question of the article. What has the GOP done for you lately? Not only have they done little for me, they nearly caused a world wide economic collapse. Now, they're balking at raising the debt ceiling they had no problem raising every year W was in office. They are not just a pain in the bottom, they are outright dangerous.

Hmmm, funny. I don't remember mentioning Clinton!

I love how you Republicans redirect when you don't like the subject. You very transparently changed the subject from W's failings to Clinton.

But you clearly implied as much with the comment: "You're probably not aware that not a single major economic indicator was better at the end of W's reign than when he started."

So, let's go back to the question of the article. What has the GOP done for you lately?

And.......let's go back to my original post at 1.34. Go ahead and place your faith and your future into the hands of the most fallible class of human beings...politicians.

Not only have they done little for me, they nearly caused a world wide economic collapse.

And BTW... it was Democrat policies of "good intention" and spineless Republican quiescence to them that caused "a world wide economic collapse".

Now, they're balking at raising the debt ceiling they had no problem raising every year W was in office.

And all the more reason to get rid of these RINO's...if they want to act like Democrats, then they should join the Democrat party. There WILL BE a major purge of squishy Republicans from the perches of power. Don't think for a minute that Romney, Pawlenty or Gingrich are going to stay in contention for 2012.

They are not just a pain in the bottom, they are outright dangerous

So are Democrats...most likely even more so since they own the executive branch.

But you clearly implied as much with the comment: "You're probably not aware that not a single major economic indicator was better at the end of W's reign than when he started."

Sorry, that's clearly a swipe at the failed Republican economic policies and had nothing to do with Clinton.

I'm not such a fan of the they're all bad argument. Yes, many of them are very difficult to tell apart regardless of party, but they aren't all alike and their policies absolutely differ enough for me to strongly support the Democrats over Republicans. I used to be a Republican until I actually started paying attention to what they said vs. what they did and the results of their policies.

The old saying 'if you want to live like a Republican, vote like a Democrat' could never be truer.

CuriousG:

I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. You come off to me as a smart and resourceful person who doesn't need the help from a bum politician to sustain either yourself or your family. Think about that.

Thanks for the civil discussion, I wish you well.

I'm not really sure where you got the idea that I need politicians to sustain me. I don't need politicians to sustain myself or family. However, we do need government to help ensure we have an environment that allows us to thrive and to enforce laws that some people choose to ignore and to provide a system of justice for all of us. That government also does things for the country that we as individuals can't or won't do. And, it is for those things I tend to trust the Democratic policies more.

Here's a very real example of why Democratic economic policies are better for everyone than Republicans. Why elections matter, in one graph

I don't need politicians to sustain myself or family.

And neither do I. So we have more in common than you think.

However, we do need government to help ensure we have an environment that allows us to thrive and to enforce laws that some people choose to ignore and to provide a system of justice for all of us.

That's why we have police, judges and a penal system. That's why we have interstates, airports, water treatment plants, trash collection, ambulance services and fire departments. That's why we have a military to protect the country. These are all things government does better to coordinate and execute than individuals. And guess what? Every single one of them all are most effective when not tainted by politics. Where things start going off the track is when the government gets in the business of social engineering.

Here's a very real example of why Democratic economic policies are better for everyone than Republicans. Why elections matter, in one graph

You and you alone control your income by the education, work skills and attitude that you bring to the table. The Democrats cannot increase your value to an employer, except by increasing minimum wage or milk sopping the unions. That falls squarely on the individual.

Mostly agree.

It is indeed when the government gets involved in social engineering things can go wrong, though at the same time, they can go right. The governments enforcement of civil rights laws improved the lot of many, many, Americans. However, the other side of that coin is what happens when they implement laws that discriminate against a class of people, laws such as DOMA and DADT.

Where political policies do have an impact on society more than the areas you mention is in the social services of health care and retirement, Medicare/aid and Social Security. It is these policies which provide a support floor by which more Americans remain economically engaged and able to retain purchasing power to a much greater extent than without those programs. That purchasing power directly impacts communities in a positive way. I'll also add education to those two. The decision of the country to provide a basic public education to all of it's citizens is one of the critical factors in America becoming the land of opportunity that has attracted people from all over the world for over 150 years.

So, while individual efforts are the most direct contributor to success, no man is an island and we all benefit from the common services afforded us by government whether or not we directly use them ourselves.

Where political policies do have an impact on society more than the areas you mention is in the social services of health care and retirement, Medicare/aid and Social Security.

I know that Social Security and Medicare have kept many older folks from falling through the cracks to abject poverty. No Democrat or Republican will move to end Social Security or Medicare however... both programs need reform. But what do we get instead? Attempts of both sides to demagogue the issue to their benefit. Same for the budget, tax law, housing, energy policy...you name it, they'll grandstand it.

When we stop making these entitlement programs "profitable" to bureaucrats, lobbyists and their ilk, there will be more incentive for politicians to restructure these programs for the benefit of the people they were designed to help. Until then, it's more of the same but only until the money runs out, then everybody is screwed to next Tuesday. The spread of European style demonstrations and riots to the US doesn't sit well with me.

Can't argue a single point there, or even offer any expansion on it.