Massive Race Divide: Blacks Will Never Gain Wealth Equality With Whites Under the Current System

Dog, you are so right. Just look at the money sent to historically black universities (either in earmakrs or as mandatory) as well as other aid given blacks. There are all kinds of scholarships for Blacks that whites cannot even apply for. For years we have set aside loans for minority businesses and in addition, the federal government has contracts set aside for minority businesses. the federal government will hire an unqualified black before it hires a qualified white under its diversity program. The opportunities are there, blacks need to mentor each other and not mentor each other by saying it is all someone's else fault. they need to address issues of work ethics and just being polite to others, etc.

nah actually this is provably bull@!$%#.

and beckya you dont want to go to any HBCUs.. in my state they are second chance schools and mainly exist cause republicans red lined the black folks into ghetoo communities and then made sure theri schools had no funding cause it is all funded by property taxes.

>the federal government will hire an unqualified black before it hires a qualified white under its diversity program.

more ignorant bull@!$%# from the party of ignorance.. they like the claim that unqualified blacks are getting a leg up.. when the law really states that you cant disqualify a qualified black when you dont have any qualified blacks working for you.. the fact is a white man and a black man with the same resume, the white man will get hired twice as often.

asians are not oppressed in the south.
blacks are.
teh GOps southern stratgey where they suggested mccain had a bastard black child.. was to incite the fears of anti black bigots.. not other minorities.

Blacks are paid less for the same qualitifications as asians and other minorities.

and most of it is due to the fact the GOP embrace bigots, make them feel comfy and welcome..see the GOP attarcted the former dem dixie crats.. when they fled the party over the civil rights laws.. you know that rand paul wants to repeal.

the GOP started the southern strategy that they have used for decades.. to attract the dixiecrats.

and they got their tea partiers with their @!$%# signs and the right wants to let everyone know.. that racism is dead.. well it isnt dead but it;s all them damn @!$%#s faults.

The left will do anything to keep alive the myth of racism in america. They MUST keep blacks in a permanent victim mentality and label anyone who disagrees with the leftist agenda as racist.

All the black people I work with have almost exact "wealth equality" with me. We all make the same pay.

If the growing number of black millionaires and billionaires are not able or willing to promote education and opportunity in black communities, that is a problem for the black community to solve, not a symptom of racism.

Here is an image of 2 "millionaires".

John Smith opened a convenience store in his neighborhood. At this one store, he employed 15 people from the community. Over twenty years, Smith opened 5 other stores in his city, each employing 15 people. John lives less than a 5 miles from the house he was raised in. He contributes to the local community, sponsors a youth group, pays local taxes and employs between 90 and 100 people, all of whom also contribute to the local community.

Tyrone Smith signed a multimillion dollar football contract when he was 20. He lives in a mansion near los angeles and employs a staff of 10 people; maids, housekeepers and bodyguards. He spends a small fortune each year on drugs, strippers and prostitutes. He setup a non-profit agency as a tax dodge, and employs his family members as employees of that non-profit agency. From the proceeds of his non-profit group, he travels every summer to his hometown to hold a "football" camp. His charity and example are touted to all the black children in his community as a worthy of emulation.

If you want to know why the black "wealth" has not filtered down to the black community a large; now you know. It has nothing to do with racism.

That is what is behind wealth disparity by race.

I'd say objectively that is incorrect.

There's wealth disparity everywhere you look. Regardless of you being white or anything.

http://an-uncommon-scold.newsvine.com/_news/2010/05/22/4330183-rethinking-stripping-so-why-are-so-many-men-paying-women-to-take-off-their-clothes?last=1274546211&threadId=887481&sp=0&pc=25#last_1

In the last 30 years, only the top 10% share of income has gone up. Which means everyone elses goes down. I don't know about you, but I'm not in the top 10%, I'm white, my income share is down.

And truthfully, even the top 5-10% couldn't grow income after 2000, they too were impacted while the top 1-5%, and top 1% income share continued to go up.

Minority communities are often impacted more. Black, hispanic, asian, and on and on. In the case of the black community, it's unfair to tell them to just buck up and take it. We talk about how our generations were able to improve their lives...

Well no F%&$ing duh, from 1865 to 1965 the entire black community basically had no opportunity to advance themselves. That's not even debatable. Meanwhile, European immigrants were given plenty of opportunity (and it was because of similar skin color).

It's a sad statement on mankind, but true. More homogenuous cultures care for each other more. And therefor blame minorities less. And are also more altruistic in the international community.

All that being said, the real economic disparity today exceeds race. All Americans below the top 5% are being targeted, regardless of who you are.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#poor-americans-have-a-slim-chance-of-rising-to-the-upper-middle-class-8

Opportunity for class advancement for all Americans. What you are born into is basically where you stay today.

John Smith opened a convenience store in his neighborhood. At this one store, he employed 15 people from the community. Over twenty years, Smith opened 5 other stores in his city, each employing 15 people. John lives less than a 5 miles from the house he was raised in. He contributes to the local community, sponsors a youth group, pays local taxes and employs between 90 and 100 people, all of whom also contribute to the local community.

Tyrone Smith signed a multimillion dollar football contract when he was 20. He lives in a mansion near los angeles and employs a staff of 10 people; maids, housekeepers and bodyguards. He spends a small fortune each year on drugs, strippers and prostitutes. He setup a non-profit agency as a tax dodge, and employs his family members as employees of that non-profit agency. From the proceeds of his non-profit group, he travels every summer to his hometown to hold a "football" camp. His charity and example are touted to all the black children in his community as a worthy of emulation.

Wow.

That's about as ignorant as any comment I've seen today. (Widely bigotted assumptions about how each race goes about making money)

You fail to realize *ALL*small business is under assault. Your example of the "white" John Smith giving back to the community is nonsense today.

I could equally point out the top 5 CEOs of the Mega Banks are all white. And they all rape the entire US economy for money...including you. They don't care about opening up more jobs for you or anyone else. They care about extending their share of income and wealth.

There's a limited amount of money in existence. Period. In order for one group to continue to advance the amount they have, another group has to have less.

The reason your example is nonsense is if we look for two seconds at what is going on today. The ultra wealthy banks are not loaning to John Smith to start a business. They are hoarding all the credit, re-investing it into the stock market, which excludes John Smiths mom&pop starter store. He has no share in that market.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#half-of-america-has-05-of-the-stocks-and-bonds-3

The top 10% own 90% of that. He will never see a dime of capital income, stock assets, and so on. The banks are all too busy loaning it out.

He setup a non-profit agency as a tax dodge

This part here is laughable.

You're accusing the athelete of setting of a big tax dodge. What the F%&$ do you think the business owner is doing?

He's likely to be doing it in wide excess. Especially as he grows his business. The bigger is company, the more likely he is to be corrupt. But yeah, it's not wrong because it's all legalized theft.

And they do it in so many fold over everyone else. What's worse, the athelete who might do this with a few million dollars, or a Mega Corporation who does it with 100s of Billions of dollars?

Like I don't know, AIG, Lehman Bros, Meril Lynch, Bear Sterns, and every other company that was skimming untold amounts of money from the American Public and then asking to be bailed out.

Boiling this down to a race difference is beyond naive. It's a class difference. The top 1% don't even care about John Smith...he is not even one of them. The top 1% make more than 1.8 mil a year, which even if he employed 100 people he likely isn't yet making annually.

There is enough wealth in the black community to transform itself. The problem is not "wealth", as there are thousands of black millionaires and even black billionaires. If those who possess wealth in the black community cannot put that money to work to benefit other blacks, then that is not a problem of racism.

The top 1%?? What the hell does that have to do with being "white?" It's typical of the left to invent such wildly biased categories as evidence of "white privelege." blacks and whites have equal opportunities today. Can blacks get access to the top 1%? Well, if oprah, tiger, jordan, denzel, and berry are not in the top 1%, they can definitely see it from their front porch.

Stop race baiting.

There is enough wealth in the black community to transform itself. The problem is not "wealth", as there are thousands of black millionaires and even black billionaires. If those who possess wealth in the black community cannot put that money to work to benefit other blacks, then that is not a problem of racism.

So why are large segments of the white community also poor, struggling to get by?

We by far have more millionares, billionares (even in proportion to race, whites are about 65% of the populace, blacks are about 15%, but the proportion is lopsided when it comes to the most wealthy)

Could it be because regardless of race those who have wealth and money simply don't care that much about those without it?

The top 1%?? What the hell does that have to do with being "white?"

It doesn't. That was my point. The Color is green.

I was just pointing out that assuming atheletes are black and wasting their money, what about the top banking CEOs? Which are all white and just robbed you for 700 billion dollars?

Seems far more excessive than a rich athelete setting up a tax dodge over a few million. The point is that wealth doesn't care if you're any color, it seeks more at the expense of others regardless of race.

It's typical of the left to invent such wildly biased categories as evidence of "white privelege." blacks and whites have equal opportunities today. Can blacks get access to the top 1%? Well, if oprah, tiger, jordan, denzel, and berry are not in the top 1%, they can definitely see it from their front porch.

Stop race baiting.

If you simply looked at proportions, you would see that the top 1% is white dominated. Far in excess of race in the general population.

But that wasn't my point. I see it was too obvious to just say the top 1% don't truly care about making things equal (regardless of what race they are). Why would they? If things were equal, they wouldn't have as much. I've never seen many ultra wealthy people wishing they had less.

If people want to complain about the top 1%, then they are automatically excluding about 99% of white people in america. So using such race-baiting tactics is not only inaccurate, it is racist.

The left is pushing the lie that institutional racism against blacks is common and widespread. That is a lie. Period.

While I will agree the will to achieve is what is necessary for success, the ability to not quite when adversity strikes. That said, of two individuals one white one black with equal business plans and qualifications, it will still be easier for the white individual to find opportunity than the black individual. I am 42 years old, born after civil rights. Went to school and lived in integrated neighborhoods my entire life thus far. That said, institutional racism does still exist, it has become significantly less overt. Look at anyone's credit history hard enough, there is a reason to turn them down. Hold an application long enough, and the job will be filled by another candidate. There are points in the process where decisions are based on opinions and impressions, where racism cannot be proved, and people know it. There are still stores that I go into today where I get the absolute best customer service, in fact it is as if I am assigned my own associate to follow me around. Go to a barber shop and told that no one there knows how to cut my kind of hair. Done a telephone interview that went wonderfully only to arrive at the office and be told that my interview would need to be rescheduled and they would call. I would agree that blacks have done plenty to deny themselves opportunity and to hold themselves stagnant, but I would not presume to go as far as to say that institutional racism is a lie. Has it gotten better? Sure, not so much with the lynchings, though I've had more offers than I'd like to have my ass kicked for daring to date a white woman, not so much with the segregation, though there are plenty of bars that have made it clear that I enter at my own risk. Not so much with the police harassment, though I have been stopped a number of times for "fitting the description" that, being a black male. Court records are pretty clear on the disparity of sentencing of whites vs non-whites.

So while you are clearly entitled to your opinion, I would dare say you have never been so insulted as to be awarded for some achievement only to have is sullied with the statement of "You are a credit to your race" something that clearly shows how far we have not come, if I am still seen as something other than fully human or that because I succeed it is despite the expectation of failure for those that I share characteristics with.

from the party of victims.. it is amazing the woe is me crowd.

so explain my friend why a white man is over twice as likely to get hired with teh same background as a black man.. if everything is fair and wonderful these days.

explain my little friend why all the need for the @!$%# signs at the tea party rallies?

explain to me.. why did karl rove do a push poll suggesting mccain had a bastard black child.. if not to offend the republican dixiecrats?

tell em does schooling help you succeed? if everything is fair like you say.. how come minority schools in my state still get about half the funding of mostly white schools.. and all is fair right..

tell me why the @!$%# does the GOP not only still have the southern strategy and still use it. Lets remind the good folks why the GOP uses the southern strategy to this day.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "@!$%#, @!$%#, @!$%#." By 1968 you can't say "@!$%#"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

yeah racism is dead.. well then the entire GOP is nothing but zombies,.

tell me why the @!$%# does the GOP not only still have the southern strategy and still use it. Lets remind the good folks why the GOP uses the southern strategy to this day.

Not a clue. Why don't you ask someone who is a member of the GOP instead of jumping to conclusions. believe it or not, there are MANY people who are not Rep that simply have no use for the lazy and ignorant of ANY race, so you're BS excuses fall on deaf ears.

The one where you get an education and get a good paying job?

....

No, the one where pay hasn't gone up in 10 years. Even for the best educated.

Ask anyone with a technical degree about the starting pay for their profession in the last 10 years. It's either flat, or down.

This is beyond race, the top 1% have it all and they don't care if you are polka dotted purple. They want you to have less and them to have more.

Playtoe -

Not apocalyptic, predictable, given the current state of economic holdings and ignorance prevalent in this country today.

With 8,000 of the wealthiest families in the United States holding the equivalent wealth of the bottom 28,000,000 families in the United States and the gap growing, what do you think the net result will be? With more than 95% of the wealth concentrated in less than 7% of the hands, what do you THINK they're doing? With the six largest banks currently holding assets in excess of 65% of the GDP compared to 15% as little as 15 years ago, what's to stop them? In 1970 CEO earnings were averaging 40 times the average worker and now exceed 700 to 1. How may the lowest earn anything at all if numbers like this keep climbing? In the middle 50's corporations paid nearly 50% of all property taxes. Today that percentage is less than 15%. Where did the jobs go? That's right, AWAY! Where did the corporations go? That's right, AWAY! Where do you think the newly impoverished middle class and the already poor will get the money to pay the difference? How do you think they'll feed, clothe, water and care for their health? Last year 3,000,000 homes were foreclosed on with another 3,800,000 to be taken this year. That's the equivalent of every privately held home in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon and Nebraska...TIMES MORE THAN TWO! Where do you think the scorched earth policies for the underclassed are leading?

There have been stated, restated, reinforced and brazenly in your face efforts to get themselves into absolute control of the food supplies, water, energy, commerce, land in wholesale tracts, every money supply on earth and now taking over governments with debt. Just exactly what do you THINK is going on?

Apocalyptic? No, predictable.

1623 Yankee...I couldn't find my comment that you're referencing, but I hope I don't disagree with you! If the only difference you're siting is between "apocalyptic" and "predictable"...either are fine with me. And perhaps, both are good observations, because if as you've aptly sited, things continue along the "predictable" path you point out, it could lead to an apocalyptic moment in history. You have no argument from me...

that is wealth not income.

total net worth.

it is worse for black women.. who have a median wealth of five bucks.

So wealth refers to liquid assets?

For purposes here figure assets minus liabilities equals wealth. Add up the value of assets (lik car, home, securities) take away the debt (like mortgage, credit card balances, loans) and the amount you come up with is net worth or wealth.

If a loved one dies and leaves you assets your bottomline gets a boost. The thing is that historically minorities and women have not held much wealth and so are less likely to pass on assets when they die. Though black households have higher wealth over the 23 years in the survey the white households gained much more. The difference between wealth in black and white households has grown. There are bunches of reasons that account for the differential but a biggy is that white households get more of that inheritance boost than black households.

As much as I hate to say it I have to agree with Creed(yuck). Nobody can put you in prison if you don't commit a crime in this day and age. Is the sentencing fair some case not but that's even more reason not to commit crimes. It's the same if you tell me don't jump in that pool there's sharks in there and I say, well I'll just stick my foot in to test the waters. If you get your foot bitten off then that's your fault, nobody elses.

Cause surely if you're that successful you can explain to others how you did it and how they can achieve something similar as well right?

It's quite simple: I busted my ass, went to school, then got a nice paying job. It's not a difficult concept really.

Your missing the point that black people are not allowed to go to school or have jobs because the "man" will not allow it.

Your missing the point that black people are not allowed to go to school or have jobs because the "man" will not allow it.

Ah yes, 'black people aren't allowed to go to school or get jobs'.....that's pretty interesting since I work with plenty that went to school and have jobs. I guess you weren't there to tell them that they weren't allowed to do that.

I think you missed the sarc

Apparently so! Quite sorry bout that!

But, yeah, blacks just need a desire to achieve...in the words of RetiredAFNCO, "This is 2010 folks, there is absolutely NO excuse for anyone to succeed if they so desire." I think it's no mistake that his statement actually makes my point, "there is absolutely NO excuse FOR ANYONE TO SUCCEED if they so desire"...He's right, for a black, a desire to succeed is NO excuse to succeed! (they call that a Freudian Slip)! His statement should have read "there is absolutely NO excuse for anyone NOT to succeed if they so desire"...

Whatever, you knew what I meant. So let the excuses begin!

teehee!

You can beat the will out of people, to the point there is no hope. In America drugs were forced on blacks as a way of oppressing them, now we have a nation of neglected black kids that can't find solice no where else but the streets, discrimination by most businesses left us with no occupations, so we had to improvise, our ladies became hookers and the men became drug dealers, its what white America wanted for us back in those days. What happened to black people in this country is a stinch that shouldn't just be sprayed over it shoud be sring cleaned.

getreal

What a bunch of racist nonsense.

Socrates1..."racist nonsense"...very insightful comment! I expect more from you...

Playtoe...thank you for your compliment.

Do you consider 8.3 "insightful"?

Socrates so stating the obvious is racist, the America, the tea baggers and Rand Paul want us to go back to was a ugly place and time.

In America drugs were forced on blacks as a way of oppressing them, now we have a nation of neglected black kids that can't find solice no where else but the streets,

puh-leeze. This is what you consider the obvious? Sounds racist to me.

Socrates so stating the obvious is racist, the America, the tea baggers and Rand Paul want us to go back to was a ugly place and time.

I can only agree getreal. The thoughts here are something else, so ignorant at the core as not to be believed. And they do want to go back. Allowing an establishment to discriminate? And in this day and age? And would they?

To that I have no doubt, yes they would. American capitalism at it's ugliest. And some say that racism is a myth.

I'll try to remember that the next time I hear of a clan rally.

"sigh"

Asheville Jack, while I believe that only those minorities who have great discipline, work hard and have tremendous talent will succeed, I don't think that extends to "anyone" succeeding. In using your example of Obama, how much relative energy, effort and talent was involved in his becoming President compared to the energy, effort and talent involved in either of the Bush's becoming Presidents. It's that difference in overcoming inertia and resistance which is built into our system that this article is talking about.

Still, both Bush and Obama were elected President. So it is not cannot be said that there is an inherent failure or shortcoming of the system itself, or else Obama would never ended up as President.

In both cases, as I mentioned was essential above, neither man squandered their opportunities.

America doesn't limit anyone who is willing to do the hard work to succeed.

Yes it does.

Where do you think you live?

Honestly. That America is dead.

Corporations have taken the power, and that's the way it is. And yes, they can limit your chance at success. If I want to start a small business to "work hard" and "improve my life" who do you think is authorizing the loan?

Thomas Jefferson warned us about this and people do not even see it. He said the day we allowed financial institutions to issue currency was the day our liberty was gone.

That happened in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve.

He also warned us that monied Corporations would seek to be the new aristocracy. And they are.

They control the issue of credit today. You have almost no say whatsoever in economic matters. All you can do is try to navigate the storm as best you can and *hope* to come out ok.

So while poverty, slums, gangs and crime are obstacles that may need to be overcome for a black person to achieve success in many instances, these barriers are not endemic to the American system or strictly limited to black people.

Poverty perpetuates itself.

It's not some coincidence that the poorest states in the world stay poor because they are too lazy to overcome it. It's because poverty traps are self-reinforcing and we live in a world that economically is controlled by the flow of credit.

Internationally poverty states are kept poor at the behest of powerful financial interests in order to keep wages low and the price of goods low so they can be sold at the highest profit possible in economies with more access to credit.

They are proportionally greater for black people because they are simply born into it. That's a simple fact. Proportionally by population more blacks are born into poverty than whites.

But a key issue is moving up. Moving up regardless of being white or black has been reduced over time. Increasingly we become born into what we will be.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#poor-americans-have-a-slim-chance-of-rising-to-the-upper-middle-class-8

White or otherwise.

Nicey, I see you have so mind made up. So instead of getting into a battle royale with you I would like to point you to what caroaber #12 wrote. She would seem to repudiate your commantary.

Someones anecdotal story about being a success doesn't change the conditions of the world. Which have widely detoriated in terms of equality that actually matters.

I have my story too, my family was poor, I put myself thru college, got my engineering degree, yada, yada, yada.

That doesn't change what's going on in this country and everywhere. It's not about my mind, it's facts. Simple, undeniable facts, about economic equality. Guess what. You don't have it. Because the people with everything don't want you to.

Think logically for just a minute.

What interest do the top 1% have in your success? How does that benefit them?

Statistically, class advancement is 4 times less likely than it was 50 years ago. That's for everyone. So no, your hard work alone is not going to cut it.

Liken this to any number of analogies. Let's say I'm a fighter, I work hard, have my natural abilities, and play by the rules. I lose because the guy I fought was using illegal drugs. My hard work was for naught (in terms of how this world measures success which is victory, money, etc) because someone else gammed the system.

What system do you believe you live under? It's gammed. They can and do negate peoples hard work all the time.

What system do you believe you live under? It's gammed. (did you mean gamed) They can and do negate peoples hard work all the time.

Sorry, I disagree. And I've come to the conclusion that you're thought process is illogical. To say, for instance, that because another person is successful I can't be, or that because China is successful India can't be is simply folly.

Sure, in a world of three billion people all going in slightly different directions, very few are going to line up behind you and your particular goals or dreams. But that doesn't mean the the whole world system is plotting against a particular person. The difference between you and me is that you think in sweeping generalities, such as black people can't be successful in life because 'the man' has his boot on their collective necks, while I believe in the power of individuals to carve out a successful place for themselves despite obstacles placed in their way.

Again, if the system were rigged, Clinton or McCain would be President today.

Asheville Jack, I truly appreciate your admiration of personal vigor. I also think that if we are complacent in our efforts to bring aboard all members of our society we will lose as a society. Right now there is a movement among certain types of Libertarians (AKA Anarchists) to undo the progress that we have made. I do not advocate giving anyone, but the most helpless, a free ride. I do advocate a level playing field for all, and that includes neutralization of familial influence.

While I would agree minorities in general and black people in particular have gotten the short end of the stick historically, nevertheless America doesn't limit anyone who is willing to do the hard work to succeed.

That's a wonderfully rosy look at the nation, but it doesn't reflect reality. Racial discrimination didn't disappear after the civil rights era, poverty is no less of a trap, education and employment opportunities are not equal throughout the country. It's nice to think that race and class distinctions are behind us, and that America is open for everyone to succeed equally, but it simply isn't true.

American has a black President, black Supreme Court Justices, military generals, governors, mayors, congressman, CEO's, cops and who know how many successful small businessman and women, teachers, clergymen and scientist. The list of very successful black people in America goes on and on.

The fact that some Black people have become highly successful, does not mean that Blacks do not face obstacles or barriers that make it much harder for them to escape poverty and find successes in our society. It is indeed true that many Blacks have found places in business, education, science, politics, and the public sector, but they do so at a much lower rate than their White counterparts.

How many Black presidents have we had? Just one, with no real previous Black candidates that ever had a shot at it. Obama's candidacy and subsequent Presidency has sparked a new wave of racism coming to the forefront in politics. His beliefs, loyalties, and even the eligibility of his election were all challenged in a way White candidates never have been (no White candidate has ever been accused of winning an election because White voters came out to support someone of their own race). Don't you think that tells us something about the attitudes and opportunities facing Blacks today?

So while poverty, slums, gangs and crime are obstacles that may need to be overcome for a black person to achieve success in many instances, these barriers are not endemic to the American system or strictly limited to black people.

The recipe for success is the same the world over;

Again, a nice thought, but simply not true.

But if you buy into the 'poor me - white America is keeping me down BS.' If you do then you've lost before you even start.

Don't believe me? Go ask Obama.

I'm sure he would admit that the got where he was trough hard work and dedication, but I'm sure he would also admit that he didn't get where he was alone and he had many advantages and opportunities that a majority of Black men and women never get.

Obama's election as president doesn't mean that racism is dead or that Blacks have all the same advantages and disadvantages that Whites do. It is far more complex than that.

I would not be so foolish as to say racism doesn't exist in America. To be sure, many people use racism as a sword, while others use it as a cane.

What system do you believe you live under? It's gammed. (did you mean gamed) They can and do negate peoples hard work all the time.

Are you picking on my grammar? Seriously...? It took me 1 second to find your first one.

Sorry, I disagree. And I've come to the conclusion that you're thought process is illogical.

Seriously, trying to pick on a persons grammar is basically deflecting the argument. It's lame and we often find ourselves in the cross hairs for our own incorrect grammar.

To say, for instance, that because another person is successful I can't be, or that because China is successful India can't be is simply folly.

That's not what I said. That's a very simplistic interpretation of something that is much more complicated.

I'm just presenting simple statistics. For a fact a smaller portion of the population has accumulated more of the wealth in the last 30 years. For a fact class advancement has dropped steadily over the last 50 years.

Sure, in a world of three billion people all going in slightly different directions, very few are going to line up behind you and your particular goals or dreams. But that doesn't mean the the whole world system is plotting against a particular person.

The entire global economy is dominated by central banks. Credit and money are only issued by banks. So yes, they have a very large impact right down to the individual. It's impossible for them not to.

It's not about plotting. It's about what is best for them.

CEOs of large corps see that what is best for them as an elite group provides mutual benefit. Therefor its in their interest to make sure the entire group is protected and in well being.

The difference between you and me is that you think in sweeping generalities, such as black people can't be successful in life because 'the man' has his boot on their collective necks

My statements actually had little to do with race. Or even saying that people "can't" be successful. Because that's not what I said.

What I said was it's incredibly naive to not look at the impact financial control can have on our lives. Especially given what just happened.

What just happened? The financial sector took the entire world economy for a ride down the tubes. There's not one of us who doesn't no someone or been personally impacted by this. And it was entirely beyond our control.

, while I believe in the power of individuals to carve out a successful place for themselves despite obstacles placed in their way.

Again, if the system were rigged, Clinton or McCain would be President today.

Ah...but voting is one of the few things determined by the public. But as you see, even the president has limited means of meaningfully changing the game. We have financial reform, but not the kind we needed.

And not that voting does any good because most politicians are biased or have conflict of interest in financial dealings.

My argument is more about fixing the system.

Nicey, although I agree with much of what you say, I came across this chart when I was doing research for one of my articles. I tried to copy it on another thread so this time I'll just give you the link.

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

It purports to show that although the wealth is distributed quite unevenly this is not a new thing.

had they noted that the poverty rate has dropped oover the years...and that we are getting closer to zero everyday.....

The poverty rate has not dropped for the last 30 years. And certainly not for their community.

In fact, more than likely it's on the rise again, somewhere around 16-17% because of this last recession.

What is the leadership of the black community doing to solve this problem?

hole: They are either "blaming the man" or trying to tell black America to wake up, as Bill Cosby and Dr. Alvin Pouissant did in their book "C'mon People"

Yeah and look at what happened to Bill when he said something. I thought they were going to revoke is black card.

there is no such thing as leaders of a black community. Do you see leaders of Asians, Indians, Isreali etc...

Sharpton and Jackson only call themselves that to have a nice title to justify their tv time. I can tell you for a fact that they are just the black versions of Pat Buchanan.

kb: I would call people like Bill Cosby and Dr. Alvin Pouissant examples for the black community. hole in the wall: So true! I thought it was very suspicious that as soon as he made comments about the state of the black race, all of a sudden he gets outed for having an extramarital affair....so much for his own people actually listening to what he has to say. If you read the book I mentioned....it is a stinging indictment of his own race. He tells them the truth about their kids failing in school, ending up in jail, girls having having sex during their pre-teen years and perpetuating an endless cycle of poverty and the welfare life.

Its kind of odd that while commenting on this thread, I also happened to end up watching the old Norman Lear show Good Times. I remember thinking about how inaccurate a portrayal this was of the true lives of people living in the projects on the south side of Chicago. It was rare to have a family headed by two parents. The character kids, JJ, Michael and Thelma were high achievers who had a lot of respect for their parents....truly a rare thing to find in that setting. I can't help but think that if the black community did not have such high rates of single parenthood, that they would not be facing many of the problems that they have continued to grapple with for so many decades. A stable family structure has a great deal to do with how the family unit is able to overcome obstacles in life and stand up to challenges in society. Also...as a side note....I live not far from Notre Dame and I am proud to say that they just showcased their first African American Valedictorian...who also happened to be brought up in an area about 15 miles north of where I am....not a very good place to be brought up. Anecdotally speaking this kind of proves my point; here was a young woman raised in a two parent household, where BOTH parents encouraged their children to achieve. It is rare to hear these kinds of success stories from the black community when their children start out at a disadvantage with not having a balanced family life; too many of their mothers are impoverished and don't feel the need to push their children to try to escape that kind of lifestyle.

Caroaber said: This is but a segment of contemporary Black America.

You were referencing the part of Black America that squanders opportunity. I don't believe that any educated, articulate, hard working person in this country can't overcome racial obstacles. It may be more difficult for someone of color, but in this day and age, it seems that using ones color as an excuse for failure is becoming rather old and tired, and is losing a great deal of its validity. Michelle Obama is actually a better example of this than the POTUS, since Barack had the "advantage" if you will...of having a biracial upbringing. He had a strong father figure in his maternal grandfather. There are countless examples of Black Americans overcoming racial barriers; some having done so BEFORE the Civil Rights Act.

Yes, we can

I too thought the tone of this article could be better.

But it brings out a point about economic equality that transcends race. You don't have economic equality. Unless you are in the top 1% or top 1-5%, you don't have it. Period.

There's a difference between a defeatist attitude and being aware of reality. To ignore reality, is inviting the status quo and even altering your life to fit others. (Like recently, as business has a lot of the power today, many do not stand up for themselves as they feel lucky to have a job)

Your advancement today has largely been reduced by those with what matters. And that is financial power. It is not in the interest of the financial power in the way the world operates for you to advance.

How would you feel if you were in a competition, tried your best, and failed. Only to find out the competition is rigged? That's much the same today. It's nice to say if you simply put in hard work, educate, and be responsible, you will succeed.

I can provide you more examples of failure for every 1 success story of people who did the *exact* same thing as you and failed anyway.

What's interesting is our position to put the blame on these individuals, rather than where the power lies. You really think the poor have much power in real terms? So why do we continually seek to label them as lazy, degenerate, unwilling to succeed, etc. Rather than focus concerns on those who actively seek to worsen their position economically.

Nicey said: How would you feel if you were in a competition, tried your best, and failed. Only to find out the competition is rigged? That's much the same today. It's nice to say if you simply put in hard work, educate, and be responsible, you will succeed.

There are tons of people out there of all colors who have experienced the above scenario you just mentioned. Successful people keep trying.....unsuccessful people give up.

There are tons of people out there of all colors who have experienced the above scenario you just mentioned. Successful people keep trying.....unsuccessful people give up.

Many people try their whole lives and still the majority never find what most would call success (in this world anyway as it's measured with $$$ signs).

And often times we find people completely crippled economically where even if they worked their whole lives to restore it, it would still not be restored. Healthcare is one of those things that can strike you just like that.

And really the point is not even this.

It's not about whether anyone can be successful, but whether everyone has a fair break, and they don't. I'm successful, but because other people make bad decisions my chance at the capital available is lessened.

By direct control of the issue of currency the Federal Reserve bypasses mainstreet and directly issues money to the most wealthy thru distribution by wall street and other markets. And on top of that, the government borrows from them and agrees to pay them back with your future earnings. And then on top of that, those same private institutions set your wages.

If you think the issue of currency has nothing to do with how you're paid, you're blind. There's a limited amount of capital, and where it goes directly influences wages. And you have no say in that at all. It's basically a few mega banks, and 7 people on the federal reserve board.

SimpleDoneRight...I agree with you very much, but think those are platitudes. We're not simply talking about a failure of parenting. We're dealing with an entire "system" of obstacles, including the obstacles that plague black male-female relationships.

When I read information on Willie Lynch Doctrine, I see the effects/remnants of the behaviors intended to be conditioned in black slaves working today...passed down through generations.

To a great extent I don't think blacks should look to whites for help, but I don't think it's the right answer as long as blacks live in America. Considering the super structure that white's have built and maintain, any and every minority must look to whites for help...to patronize their businesses, to do B2B transactions for products and materials, to white teachers who are sympathetic to the particular challenges a black child/student will face, to white businessmen/women who have generations of experience as mentors, etc, etc. But, if blacks encounter the "racist" white, who might "refuse" to buy at their store (even burn it down), refuse them critical product/materials when most needed to sell, or the racist teacher that would discourage rather than encourage, etc, etc., then blacks need to learn to avoid that kind of white, or black, or hispanic.

I'm an advocate of blacks learning more about ancient Egyptian "Wisdom", in conjunction with everything else. The way Christianity, the Bible, is taught in most black churches is pretty much in line with how it was taught during slavery (in most black churches). There's an EXCELLENT book called "Roll, Jordon, Roll, The World The Slaves Made", by Eugene Genovese. Mr. Genovese said, he started out wanting to write about about "slave masters" because most books were about slaves. But, as he researched information found in the attics and trunks of ex-slave master families, he found that slave master's wrote and had records mainly about their slaves. From that information, however, he came to realize how much black slaves shaped America...one conclusion he reached was, "America is shaped by black slaves to the extent that the pushed back against white oppression." When blacks were pushed too far at various points they would resist with force and thereby set and shape the relationship and cultural environment of America...powerful book.

My point is, blacks should gain more wisdom and be able to perceive when situations that oppress them, block them are too great and damaging, and then learn to resist, and push back against those things that would destroy them.

Of course, I'm speaking only of blacks, but I think this is applicable to all people/races...that's the American Way that I think folks like RetiredAFNCO and hole_in_the_wall, are speaking of...although I don't think they are necessarily for blacks being TOO successful at it!

Success in life boils down to consistently making the right decisions over and over again.

Unless you get sick...in which case your insurance will try to drop you, cap you out, deny you, only cover 80%, and you'll be bankrupt.

Or because a bunch of Banks decided that ultra wealthy people needed not just some of the money but all of it, they will guide the economy into a tailspin that costs you your job thru no fault of your own.

Or you're born in poverty in Africa and only have and there's a 1/5 chance you will die before turning 5 years old.

Seriously? Just make all the right decisions. Where do people learn these things.

It's great to be optomistic, but it's irresponsible to not live in reality and to try to solve real issues with real solutions.

Nicey - "Seriously? Just make all the right decisions. Where do people learn these things."

It's called life. Let me guess - it's only fair if you're on top, and short of that, complaining is the only solution?

What a bunch of crap... you want reality?

Insurance problems? Your decision not to seek a better policy or work for employer that does. Do 20 years in the military/fire/police or countless other government and/or civil service jobs to secure your health insurance if you're scared to death of going it alone.

Bank bailouts? This doesn't compare to failure of Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac and the politicians that help secure loans for people that had no credit track record or fiscal responsibility- all in the name of securing votes.

Poverty in Africa? Got me there. Why don't you do something about it?

Attitude? The reality is that real issues rely on real solutions created by folks that have a track record of making good decisions - not some whining, life if too hard and unfair jack@ss. Is that real enough for you?

The adversity that we each face in our lives is not the same, nor is our ability to counter it.

It's called life. Let me guess - it's only fair if you're on top, and short of that, complaining is the only solution?

Assuming making all the right decisions will ensure success is nonsense. And not only that, when's the last time you met a perfect person.

Bank bailouts? This doesn't compare to failure of Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac and the politicians that help secure loans for people that had no credit track record or fiscal responsibility- all in the name of securing votes.

Private Financial institutions have over 700 trillion dollars in bets on the open market. That they expect the Federal Government to insure should they ever go up in flames. Just like AIG did.

I'm not going to blame people trying to seek a home. I'm going to blame scheemers and shiesters who then repackage that loan, sell it, and then take bets on it in excess of 30, 50, 100X the value.

Private Corporate Debt *dwarfs* the Federal Government by 3X.

http://www.myinvestmentanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/debt-in-the-united-states.jpg

It's not about complaining. It's about what is right. To ignore that a very elite group of people have created (read, lied, stolen, back door hand shaked, got regulations removed, etc, etc) financial institutions so big that their failure will result in the collapse of the entire financial system is just irresponsible.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/146819/america's_ten_most_corrupt_capitalists/

These are the people who are selling out this country. Not hard working people struggling to make ends meet. What's moreover is you blame them for being upset [which who isn't upset when bad things happen to them], but give guys like this a pass (who are basically all criminals).

SimpleDoneRight. Thanks. My measure of success would probably be in how we all turn out, especially my kids. I have two sons, both in mid-30's, the younger has a Master's, the older is gainfully employed as a Sys Admin for a State department. Neither have a criminal record, nor have been a drug addict. I've been divorced for a while, so I'm not such a success in regard to male-female thing...but she's happy and I'm happy so that's good. I think all of our happiness throughout life is worth more than gold...it's as they say "Priceless".

I totally agree with you about the challenges each group/race/ethnicity, even individual has and will face in life. I think it's more a matter of "Providence" that this must be, as it forces us to move forward as a human race. I'm, personally, not ashamed of being part of the legacy of slavery...I'm proud that we're still here today, and I'm so very uplifted by all the books about how black men and women overcame their circumstances. I read the book "Up From Slavery", the autobiography of Booker T. Washington, when I was young and it has been an inspiration ever since...I advise to any black (or white/hispanic) youth. If adversity doesn't kill you, it WILL make you stronger...so ultimately, I believe blacks will be strengthened by this whole experience...and that's a great thing.

Nevertheless, I would challenge your thinking about this statement, "Slavery may have brought you here (ancestry), don't waste their incredible sacrifice on being hung up on oppression when opportunities avail themselves all around you." I just want to point out that it was "their incredible sacrifices" BECAUSE they were "hung upon on oppression" that gave us the liberties and freedoms we have today. I won't neglect my duty, my obligation to gave back to those less fortunate than I by ignoring the struggles they face and helping to fight for them, just because I was able to "make it". That's kind of selfish, isn't it?

I think it's important for ANY black, whether you've made it or not, to be a part of the black struggle to advance. The black struggle should be one where we can join arm-in-arm with whites as they, themselves struggle to advantage, that way we ALL advance. That's the ideal way. And that's really my approach in Newsvine, if you will note, I only tend to get involved when it appears that the situation is one where blacks are being held back, disadvantaged, discouraged, misrepresented, etc. And that's often done by the "racist" white...and I admit never before in American history has it seemed that the "racist white" is a minority among them! So, I try to always make that qualification "racist white" to distinguish them and hopefully not offend whites of good will.

That's all...you're in Dubai, you say? Wow! Be safe, and I pray for your safe return.

As I discussed in my own piece, I totally agree with

where we can join arm-in-arm with whites as they, themselves struggle to advantage, that way we ALL advance.

I suggest that than qualifing it by also being

a part of the black struggle to advance

would suggest that I should be a part of the white struggle to advance.

I don't want to derail your comments here, and therefore will not provide the link, but you seem thoughtful to me, not that it is for me to say, and I would appreciate your thoughts on my series regarding race relations.

People don't reach success because they "make bad choices" that would be black white red yellow brown etc.

All people struggle and more so now that the Liberals have expanded and collectivized (sp?) doing less and getting more entitlements.

Dad-of-4, are you therefore suggesting that a student in SE DC has the same chance at success as a student going to a suburban school in Topeka? That the DC student doesnt reach success because they made bad choices in life?

How does that make sense? Most children cannot choose which school they go to or what standards the system enforces. They simply go to school. And when they get out with a substandard education, many doors have already been closed to them. It doesnt take a genius to recognize that fact. Through no fault of their own, they have already been set back in life.

Are you suggesting that it is racism that makes the primarily black schools in DC worse than Topeka? Conversely are you suggesting that the schools in DC are worse than those in Topeka because they are primarily black?

Are you suggesting that it is racism that makes the primarily black schools in DC worse than Topeka?

Did you read what I posted? In the very first few lines I said:

Im going to attack this from a different angle: I dont think it has as much to do with race as it has to do with economic status. A greater percentage of blacks (and all minorities really) are living in poverty and in poor neighborhoods than whites.

I later went on to state that :

A black child from a wealthy family has a much better chance to achieve financial success in life than a white child from a poor family.

Race is not as much an issue here as poverty here, and last I checked poverty affects us all regardless of race. Nowhere did I state or even insinuate that racism was the cause of anything. Poor people live in poor neighborhoods with poor schools. That applies regardless of race.

Conversely are you suggesting that the schools in DC are worse than those in Topeka because they are primarily black?

No, I told you why the schools in SE DC and other inner city/urban public schools are worse off when I said this:

They dont have the same amount of resources, they dont have the same quality teachers, and they dont have the same standards.

The schools are broke. They cant afford to draw top talent (teachers) and they cant afford to give the students proper materials. Textbooks are outdated, money for enrichment programs simply isnt there, and they often cant afford to accommodate gifted students or teach advanced classes. They dont enforce attendance and performance like other schools do, but they need students to pass so they can keep the doors open, so the standards suffer.

I didnt blame any other race for the problems facing poor students from poor school districts, which are many times minority students. I simply explained how poverty can lead to bad schools and poor academic performance.

Yes, I had read it, which is why I was somewhat surprised to read the other comment. I apologize if I misunderstood the thrust of your remarks.

HHM--

You are dead right. I had the opportunity to see the educational system the same way by going to 3 different high schools in 2 states. (mom was traveling nurse). Started out in the suburbs of Detroit as a freshman--had plenty of AP/college prep classes. Soph/Jr year in suburban Atlanta, same choices. During summers back in Detroit (parents divorced) my dad would FORCE us to go to summer school. His logic was we were not laying around playing video games. Entered Detroit Public Schools for senior year and I was SO far ahead (at 16 no less) that my only classes were English, 2 drafting classes back to back, 1 period in the main office working, and internships. (1 semester at Federal reserve and one at UNisys).

My chemistry class (in summer school-Detroit) had ZERO supplies. The instructor literally said "Trust me, it works". To this day, it has gotten worse. They are the worst large district in the country.

SCTexan...I agree with this statement, "until there has been a cultural change so that every race values education and self reliance." When black youth learn to value an education and self-reliance, they well be successful. I'm not trying to make a racist statement, and let's forget for a moment that it was whites who enslaved blacks...a race-based situation. The point I'm trying to make is that slavery devalued the individual and made him chronically "dependent" on the slave master (forgetting again, their race). That dependency has been handed down for many generations...and it won't be overcome in the blink of an eye.

Many years ago, I listened to a minister belonging to the African Liberation Theology movement, who gave an interpretation of the following scripture:

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Genesis 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Genesis 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

He explained that we are now witnessing the emergence of this "fourth generation" in America. Legal slavery ended in 1863. Me, for example, my mother was born in 1925, her father was born in 1899, my great-grandfather was born during slavery...so I'm actually the "third generation" out of slavery. My son's are the "fourth generation" out of slavery.

He explained that it, apparently, takes about 4 generations for a people under slavery (any people) to separate themselves from the "slave mentality". Powerful stuff!

If you have eyes to see and ears to hear, in the spirit of God, it seems clear that this is a truth among black people. Black youth today (I'd say younger than 35-40, as an upper limit) are predominately "fourth generation from slavery" people. They majority of them really aren't that into black slavery history, they tend to believe that slavery has no effect on them...at least not like those of my generation and older do.

Interestingly, however, these times also are apparently a time when blacks will be made to return to Africa, to their homeland. Perhaps, as a result of the widely anticipated 2012 apocalypse theory. Perhaps, as a result of re-emerging racism. Perhaps, simply a result of blacks becoming disillusioned by not having ever learned to "value education and (achieve) self-reliance" in America. I'm not sure...but I believe in biblical prophecy!

"It seems that only American Blacks have a hard time getting in wealth while Blacks not born here get wealthy."

Duh...aint dat what we been sayin! But, it don't have NOTHING to do with slavery, and there's no such thing as "slave mentality"...and Willie Lynch was only a myth.

When I say this I'm a racist, coocoo for coco puffs...but it's so intelligent coming from you! But, I'm glad you mentioned it...it's so true!

Say it again, John Franklin Mason! Preach!

amen!!!

Socialism claims are mere smoke screens for their real Conservative agenda which is to control who has and who has not.

Any doubt about why TP demographics are older, more well off whites. For some reason they are thinking that ita about payback. In, reality its about getting a fair shot.

Maybe the government should issue checks to all blacks.

the mentalist

You bring to mind a memo that circulated among Sarah Palin's administration about "another Black family in public housing." The irony is the centuries long struggle to desegregate so-called "public housing."

When this country was founded, paupers and vagabonds made for the majority of free White Males and the founding fathers saw fit to deny them the sanctions of the Constitution, which at the time were the Articles of Confederation.

However, the States made concessions, promised inclusion and representation of paupers and vagabonds in the Union in soliciting said paupers and vagabonds to prosecute the war against England and legitimize the United States. Hence the Constitution of the United States!

And by the way, the Economic foundation of the America and it's Colonies/States was built on the backs of Black Slaves who received no "checks" for their labors.

take take take take.................

JFM..I don't agree that the United States could not have been successful without Black Slaves. In fact, some would suggest that slavery, in sum, was very expensive. Certainly if you factor in today, it was hardly worth the cost.

JFM..I don't agree that the United States could not have been successful without Black Slaves. In fact, some would suggest that slavery, in sum, was very expensive. Certainly if you factor in today, it was hardly worth the cost.

There were also the indentured servants, which were Scots, and Scots Irish who came over here who were basically slaves for a 10 year period while they worked off the price of their transit here.

Also, the vast majority of the "wealth" generated by the slaves was destroyed in the war between the states 1861-1865.

There were also the indentured servants, which were Scots, and Scots Irish who came over here who were basically slaves for a 10 year period while they worked off the price of their transit here.

I'm not sure how someone can logically compare indentured servitude to slavery. There's no comparison.

"Equality is earned, not given"

Equality is a natural right from God. It CAN be taken by Man. History is replete with examples of taking equality from people for many reasons, race, gender, religious ideas, wealth, education, etc, etc. God made all people equal, as equal as the sun and the moon, all have a right to be here. Men made people unequal, took away one's natural rights. So, don't get it twisted...don't you just love the twisted thinking on the Right! Where do they get these kinds of ideas?

There is not a free money tree anywhere in the world.

Carolyn

Conservatives seem to imply that they are; the only or a majority of taxpayers. Or that Black people don't pay taxes. First of all it's merely a racist view and not the reality.

Most people are against the wars, call them Liberals if you want. The Constitution of the United States gives equal billings to the promotion and common Welfare and Defense of the United States. Most people and taxpayers would rather maintain a higher standard of living for America than fight Wars that cost lives and line the pockets of the Military Industrial Complex.

For most of nearly a Century autoworkers not only raised and supported a world leading American National Standard of Living, their taxes paid for the Wars and building the infrastructure of the American Nation. Now that they are significantly less in numbers and jobs you want to kick them and call them leeches. Them and others like railroad workers and so on.

You are likely saying you do not intend to include them but you did. There is no clear majority, with the exception of "Whites," on the entitlement rolls. The Contitution empowers Congress and not Wall Street to determine the Welfare of the United States. That includes Taxing and Regulating Wall Street!

You seem to note only part of the story.

1. The Military-Industrial Complex is alive and well. The auto workers participated and profited from this fact.

2. Auto workers, net, cost more than they were worth. We are paying the price now.

kb in nc:

"I think that some of the reason is because some whites think that blacks already get lots of help (in terms of entitlements etc...), so they might be less likely to truly put blacks on an equal level."

That's only a racist, who refuses to view history in it's proper context...don't get it twisted...do you think the socalled "help" blacks have received counter weighs the hurt they've received over the past 350+ years? ANY help given to blacks, in the mind of a "racist" is TOO MUCH. Don't get it twisted...

Playtoe--

I know its a racist. But how many closet racists are loan officers, mortgage brokers, auto finance people, investment counselors etc...

I can't answer regarding "closet racists", they are in the closet! But, consciously, or overtly "racist", probably not as many. But, the problem is the historical aspect that compels a "systematic" racist approach to blacks. Young college grads, not consciously or overtly "racist", and probably not even "closet racists", learn to implement the "system" policies, and as a result become complicit.

Hey, few people/individuals are going to quit/lose their jobs by not doing their jobs! Do I expect them too, no, probably not. Although, once I discover that I'm being used to implement discriminatory policies, I (personally), would immediately seek new employment...and if I couldn't find a new job in a reasonable period of time...I think I'd have to quit. But, that's me...

I've been blessed not to ever have a job that challenged my personal integrity. Well, I did have one incident. As a programmer for the State, Public Health Dept. I was given the task of programming a change in the "Birth Certificate" program. I was told to code this logic, "The race of the baby goes to the father, unless the mother is Hawaiian or Black." I wasn't aware that they considered the "Hawaiian" in this manner. But, I understood, that they were saying if the "father or the mother is black, the child is black"...I didn't, however, necessarily feel a problem with this, after I thought about it.

So, essentially, Obama is "black" according to many, if not most, State birth laws.

Was that in MI? I was born there, but parents are both black so I guess I'm exempt.

Also to your point about being inadvertantly complicit, thats what I was trying to get at. They are saying they aren't practicing racist policies, but their subconscious actions might suggest otherwise.