Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
advertisement
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit PowerIsKnowledge's column >>

POWERISKNOWLEDGE

Home Page
Gashki'ewizi
Articles Posted: 148  Links Seeded: 1772
Member Since: 9/2008  Last Seen: 2/07/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

GOP: The Lewin Group is the study we used to base our facts against health care reform. The Lewin Group is owned by United Health Group who paid $350 million settlement to its subscribers

Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 AM EDT
politics, white-house, republicans, gop, congress, senate, health-care-reform, house-of-representatives, corporations, lobbyists, insurance-reform, rachael-maddow, ingenix, lewin-group, united-health-group, blue-dog-democratics
By PowerIsKnowledge

Photo by Adam Baker. (License: Creative Commons Attribution)

If the republicans get their way.

advertisement

The Lewin Group is a consulting firm of Ingenix.

Ingenix is owned by United Health Group.

The republicans should be recognized for what they are: fallacious, underhanded, liars, cheats, thieves, deceivers, con artists, opportunists, etc. They have no intention of acting in the best interests of the people.

It's time for their enablers to come out of denial and accept the truth.

Republicans could care less about the people—they're only trying to save the corporations, lobbyists, organizations, etc., who are lining their pockets.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32179495

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2128747/

http://www.ingenix.com/

http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/main/Businesses.aspx

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • PowerIsKnowledge's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: American History, BlackFolks, Centervine, Democrats, Gut Check America, Hate Watch, Left of Center, LeftWing Warriors, Liberal Libertarians, Libertarians, ObamaExpress, ObamaVine, Open Minded, Resources
  • Regions: Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (37)
PowerIsKnowledge

I personally don’t want the GOP anywhere near the designing of health care reform. I don’t trust them to do the right thing.

  • 10 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 AM EDT
Fred-256289Deleted
Rainkiss

Fred,

I picked one section, at random, from your list:

Pg 29 lines 4-16

YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

You have NO idea what you're reading, do you?

4 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar5
ing incurred under the essential benefits pack6
age with respect to an individual (or family) for
7 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec8
ified in subparagraph (B).
9 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
10 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
11 $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a
12 family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded
13 to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year
14 by the annual percentage increase in the Con15
sumer Price Index (United States city average)
16 applicable to such year.

COST SHARING. That means you, the person covered, can't be required to pay more than the listed amounts.

I note you conveniently left out the section immediately preceeding:

23 (1) NO COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERV

24 ICES.—There shall be no cost-sharing under the es

25 sential benefits package for preventive items and

1 services (as specified under the benefit standards),
2 including well baby and well child care.

The part where it says that this package will cover all this, free of charge to the consumer. (And, trust me, those well baby and well child care visits are murder if you're not covered.)

You also leave out the section immediatly following:

17 (C) USE OF COPAYMENTS.—In establishing
18 cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and pre

19mium plans under this subsection, the Sec

20 retary shall, to the maximum extent possible,
21 use only copayments and not coinsurance.

The part which states that only copayments, not coinsurance, which would make the truth much more clear.

Which tells me that, unless you are Daniel Suelo, author of this post on moonbattery.com, you've just plagerized quite a bit of his work, or lifted this listing from elsewhere.

Reported.

  • 17 votes
#1.2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:58 AM EDT
CCArm

Good job Rainkiss, thanks!

  • 10 votes
#1.3 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT
Rainkiss

I work for a university. There's not much that screams "intellectual dishonesty" than plagiarism. Given that he opened his post with a rant on thinking for yourself? Pft.

  • 12 votes
#1.4 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT
btco

Also, I have a limited ability to read posts that make me scroll like a mad fool !!!! Pft.

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:27 AM EDT
CCArm

It's time for their enablers to come out of denial and accept the truth.

*sigh* that is my wish as well. However, I think it would be like waiting for hell to freeze over.

Rainkiss, most that spread the distortions and out right lies in a effort to derail public opinion have no intellectual or honest anything ;)

  • 7 votes
#1.6 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:29 AM EDT
pjwrites

Rainkiss,

Good job. After I read Fred's little missive, I went to the bill itself and was amazed at how he interpreted it, absolutely amazed. He couldn't have been any farther from the truth, could he? It's amazing to me how these insurance companies will go to any length to stop this bill dead.

How is the health insurance business, anyway, Fred? You guys panicked much? Sure looks like it. Another great reason to push for this bill.

FYI, Rain, this is how I started my response to Fred, before I saw yours. I started with his first example and intended to go from there:

Pg 22 of the HC Bill

MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Does not. Says the government will conduct a study over the next 18 months to determine which types of businesses purchase insured products versus self-insure, the similarities and differences, how solvent they are and how much they have in reserve if they decide to self-insure, and how much risk they put themselves and their employees under by self-insuring.

Pg 30 Sec 123

THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Will not. Says there will be a private-public advisory committee, a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.

I'm sure we could have taken his utterly inaccurate interpretations one by one and disproved them all.

  • 9 votes
#1.7 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:34 AM EDT
Division by Zero

I'm quite certain that Fred-256289's missive comes from an email that he received. Given the selectivity of the quotes, I doubt it reflects original thinking.

  • 5 votes
#1.8 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:00 AM EDT
PowerIsKnowledge

1.2 - Thanks Rainkiss. Excellent work.

  • 3 votes
#1.9 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:49 PM EDT
Rainkiss

Y'all are going to make me blush, just doing my part to help people get smarter. ;D

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:51 PM EDT
PowerIsKnowledge

1.7 - Thanks pjwrites, also excellent work.

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:54 PM EDT
pjwrites

And I thank you, Power! ;-)

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:58 PM EDT
Rainkiss

I'm sure we could have taken his utterly inaccurate interpretations one by one and disproved them all.

Quite likely, but taking one at random, tugging on a thread, and seeing the whole thing unravel was enough to blow the credibility of the entire post clean out the window. /shrug.

  • 4 votes
#1.13 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:01 PM EDT
tyler

And here are some objections:

Fred, they don't appear to be your objections, as that list is all over the Interwebs. Mind #4 of the Code of Honor. 1.2 deleted.

Plagiarism and copyright infringement will not be tolerated. If you did not write something, do not portray it as your own (use the "blockquote" tag and cite your source by linking to the original content). If you do not have the right to republish the content in question, do not post it to Newsvine.

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT
Reply
btco

United also paid their CEO 125 million in compensation in 2005. That CEO also was involved in a little bitty problem of back dating stock options and was let go. They are sucking the LIFE out of us in the name of profit.

  • 10 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:09 AM EDT
miasma

Insurance interests total 1/4 of Baucus' fundraising
Calling them "Blue Dogs" is affront to Dogs. And the Blue Man Group. heh.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
Reply
Rainkiss

How can people honestly look at this, and at those opposing reform who've taken tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars from the health care industry over the years, and still take these people seriously? (I'm not just talking about the GoP, here, there are Democrats just as guilty.)

  • 10 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:39 AM EDT
btco

I agree, all we can do is vote, call, write, and let our opinions be known. I think that happened with the last few elections cycles !!

It seems that this time with health care to me at least (I could be way off though) that we the people are being heard a little bit over the noise and vomit coming from lobbyists. At least we don't have Harry and Louise on the air waves yet.

  • 6 votes
#3.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:26 AM EDT
Pittsburgh Dan

They're baaaaaack...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/business/media/17adco.html

Harry and Louise have had a change of heart, though.

  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:49 AM EDT
btco

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 2 votes
#3.3 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT
Reply
Pittsburgh Dan

I have a theory here. People (or...Sheeple...as the case may be)...don't have the stomach to stick to their guns anymore...figuring..."well...I still HAVE healthcare through my employer...so we better not change...I might LOSE that."

America? THIS IS WHAT WE VOTED FOR!

For nearly 8 years we were dominated by fear and "what might be's" from the Republicans...so much so that we "run home to mama" anytime they ban together and tell us the sky is falling.

If you actually KNOW how much your employer is paying toward your health care...then you have to know...THE SKY HAS ALREADY FALLEN! What we're getting stuck with per month is already criminal! The people suffering through medically induced bankruptcy or lack of care due to an existing condition or denial of services at the altar of MONEY is already a criminal problem!

I'm different. I'm self-employed...married...two kids. I can barely afford rising premiums for everyone in the house (ironically enough) except ME....(Highmark just raised the kids rate through SCHIP by a whopping 140%...our monthly outlay WITHOUT me, the breadwinner, is over 400 bucks)

...all this talk about tax credits and subsidy's and year end benefits is useless to me if I cannot afford to make the @#$X! payment every month. You read all this stuff in the bill and it DOESN'T make it any simpler...just different for the sake of being different.

Until you force Insurance companies to offer a reasonable (say 90-10) plan for a reasonable (say 40 dollars a head per household) REGARDLESS of pre-existing condition....and then mandate that EVERYONE have coverage....we cannot have real and affordable health insurance.

We can price fix commodities like corn and milk and stuff...why NOT insurance plans?

Insurance companies could STILL offer higher priced "cadillacs" to those of us that could afford them...but suddenly...the employer wins with a significant lowering of cost...the consumer wins with far more affordability...and yes...even the INSURANCE company wins by virtue of mandatory coverage (like auto insurance)....just 40 bucks a head generates a staggering 1.5 TRILLION in income for them annually.

We as a nation currently outlay 2.4 trillion in total for healthcare. AND...with everyone offering the same, base insurance plan?

Finally Ins. co's would have to compete on service and add-ons...rather than their ability to generate income by denying claims and refusing participants.

What's more, the people fighting to lower exhorbitant hospital fees would THEN become...oddly enough...the insurance industry. All without having to create huge new bureacracies or oversight committees...this is doable within our existing framework!

This doesn't solve the WHOLE problem. Still need to find a way to make a low income tier (20 a month per head?)...that gets everyone coverage...

But it finally addresses the heart of the problem...the painful nut at the core of our current system--criminally high premiums and a brutally penal sliding scale for people who had the grave misfortune of simply getting sick in our country.

  • 10 votes
Reply#4 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
Rainkiss

If you actually KNOW how much your employer is paying toward your health care...then you have to know...THE SKY HAS ALREADY FALLEN!

Too true, for those lucky enough to have employers to cover a lot of the cost. (And for all those howling about the cost of COBRA? That IS what your employer was paying, most likely, other than the small surcharge they're allowed to add.)

And, with an employer group policy, what most don't realize, is that the cost isn't the same for every company. The insurance companies, each year, get to re-evaluate, and charge what THEY think you should pay. And, trust me, you have two or three employees with major medical issues in a year? Your policy cost is going to go WAY up.

  • 7 votes
#4.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:53 AM EDT
jawill11

Well said, Pittsburgh Dan. What gets me is the attitude by employees that the money their employer pays for their coverage is not part of their salary that they earned.

My employer pays over $1000 per month for their portion of my health insurance premiums. If we had public insurance that was affordable and not tied to employment, that $1000 would still be part of my salary package. Even if we negotiated for the employer to keep part of that money as savings for not having to cover their employees anymore, that would still be well over $5000 per year increase in my take home pay. After all, that money is money that I earned, it just isn't going to me. It's going to the private company screwing me and my employer with overpriced, crappy insurance.

  • 4 votes
#4.2 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:42 AM EDT
Rainkiss

Exactly, Jawill11. I know our raises this year were, shall we say, less than robust, mostly due to the fact that we couldn't afford it, due in part to the high cost of insurance. As it is, we had to do some fancy footwork renegotiating the plan to keep it affordable and not cut back coverage this year.

  • 6 votes
#4.3 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:11 AM EDT
jawill11

Same here Rainkiss. In the eyes of the employer, the salaries went up. It doesn't matter to their balance sheet if it goes in our pockets or to pay for the private jet of the United Health CEO, it's still money out of their pocket.

I think more people would be unsatisfied with their current coverage if they spent more time thinking about that issue, especially in this economy where pay is stagnant but insurance costs continue to skyrocket.

  • 4 votes
#4.4 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
Rainkiss

A previous employer did a statement for employees every few years... It outlined EVERYTHING which was their compensation... Wages, health insurance, life insurance, retirement contributions, the works. Surprised a lot of people the first time they saw it. I've suggested we do 'em here, it's being looked into.

  • 6 votes
#4.5 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:43 AM EDT
Reply
Pittsburgh Dan

COBRA brings the reality home. Personally? I don't have a problem with health benefits being taxed...it's INCOME you receive in the form of benefits rather than in a paycheck...but it's off point. If we don't put some handcuffs on the insurance industry's ability to gouge us...then we get absolutely what we deserve.

  • 7 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
btco

And that is why I am all over a public option. I hope that stays on the table when all this is said and done.

I am sure this whole reform will get watered down, but it is a step in the right direction.

  • 5 votes
#5.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT
Reply
ScienceGuy-356641

Remember the 4 D's of the Republican strategy during the Obama years: Delay, Distract, Distort, Deceive.

We are seeing their "fear and doubt"-inciting propaganda campaign bear some fruit.

The antidote is information -- the public needs to be better educated about what the proposed health care reform plans do and do not include.

  • 5 votes
Reply#6 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT
btco

Totally True !!!!

  • 3 votes
#6.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT
topgun-1006407

The antidote is information -- the public needs to be better educated about what the proposed health care reform plans do and do not include.

True! The Wall Street Journal reports that though more people disapprove of Obama's plan, that changes once they learn more about it;

"When given several details of the proposal, 56% said they favored the plan compared with 38% who oppose it." -WSJ

Here is the link;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124890178435291341.html

The KEY to winning the battle in the healthcare debate is getting the FACTS out to counter the scare tactics!

  • 7 votes
#6.2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
Reply
topgun-1006407

A fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives: liberals build things, conservatives tear them down.

Examples are many including the public school system, public university system, library system, rural electrification, NASA(which has contributed to our innovation and leadership in many areas of science), interstate highway system (though Eisenhower, in a break with his own party, deserves some credit) and the current hospital system, which is not complete until we have a proper healthcare system in place. If this country was totally run by conservatives, imagine how far back we would be, somewhere between Somalia (with no government) and a religious theocracy, such as Iran.

Just think where we would be as a nation without a functioning, water system, school system, etc. and now you see the need for healthcare for a healthier populace. A system which is not perfect but is not leeching money off of the American people. The health insurance industry serves NO purpose, and it is fighting for its' life!

  • 10 votes
Reply#7 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:31 PM EDT
miasma

It is way easier to be against something than to be for anything.

  • 7 votes
#7.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:40 PM EDT
Rainkiss

You said it, Miasma.

  • 5 votes
#7.2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:41 PM EDT
xcomunic8ed

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. -FDR

  • 5 votes
#7.3 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:52 PM EDT
Reply
PowerIsKnowledge

FDR apparently knew a conservative when he saw one.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:19 AM EDT
fire hawk

First of all I say blessings upon any and all who expose the Republicans/Lewin Group for what they are. Basic economics will prove we need and should demand a public option, it simply comes down to taking the profit out and adding care as a priority. Of course we are dealing with those who believe we can cut taxes and the defecit and never lose services.

  • 3 votes
Reply#9 - Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Leave a Comment:
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
(XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
Newsvine Privacy Statement
As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
FUN STUFF:
  • Leaderboard |
  • E-Mail Alerts |
  • Top of the Vine |
  • Newsvine Live |
  • Newsvine Archives |
  • The Greenhouse |
COMPANY STUFF:
  • Code of Honor |
  • Company Info |
  • Contact Us |
  • Jobs |
  • User Agreement |
  • Privacy Policy |
  • About our ads
LEGAL STUFF:
  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com